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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8311814" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Just grabbing all of these posts (which I agree with) that all engage with the same thing which is related to what I posted upthread (about why you don't have Arms Race shenanigans around lifting Wizard Spell Component Pouches off their belt in other games...because their cosmic power is still awesome, but its not overpowered!).Its really a problem of holistic design/integration.  There are many ways to solve the "overpowered Wizard problem."  One well known-way is (a) have the game be scene-based where you (b) balance everyone on the same resource scheduling/recharge rate and (c) mechanics interact with this scene based design.  Further, the "scene transition" mechanics are spread around (Rituals and Epic Destiny Features) so that all PCs can have access to them.  This is also makes improv/Story Now play tremendously more easy.  This is the 4e D&D and Cortex+ approach.Then you have the Dungeon World approach where (a) everything works within the same move structure so Fighters swording and Wizards spellcasting both have to make moves/roll dice to make their archetypal shtick go.  Further, where there are conflict mechanics, its all unified (like 4e mentioned above and other games with conflict mechanics).  This brings me to a play excerpt I mentioned not long ago in [USER=1282]@darkbard[/USER] 's game that recently finished.  The players were facing a multi-staged, brutal climb off a sheer face (which would be governed by "Climb Moves and Climb Conflict Mechanics") but the Wizard said "nah, I'll take us to a scary journey through the Ethereal Plane instead where we'll be dealing with potential dangers that lets us better leverage our strengths/movesets" (what meant they no longer needed their hired Sherpa and Porter Cohorts so they said goodbye to them, then play transitioned to a "Cast a Spell Move and then Journey Conflict Mechanics."):Now they're playing a Blades in the Dark game where they're a Cult and darkbard is a Whisper (that game's Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock archetype).  One of the Spellcasting moves you can select at 1st level (you only get one choice) is like Ritualist in D&D.  It looks like this:* Notice that he has ONE Ritual at the beginning of play.  1.  * Further, in order for him to cast this Ritual he has to spend 1 Downtime Activity (a precious resource in Blades).* Further, there is a base cost to cast a Ritual equal to its Magnitude (Level) = to its Stress.  So a level 3 Magnitude Ritual costs 3 Stress!  That is 1/3 of the engine that you use to step-up/empower your moves during Scores and/or avoid Consequences!And that is just the start of things.  For instance, his Ritual is basically a version of 4e's Grasping Shadows.  He "primes it" w/ his Downtime Activity and then unleashes it during a key moment of a Score.  When he does so, he has to make the equivalent of a "Cast a Spell" move via Attune to see how well it goes off (and the group can martial resources to help him with this).  Its Magnitude 3 however, so its Effect is virtually always going to always be Great early on (you "assess Factors" to determine Effect and Magnitude 3 means that 3 things would have to be against him - Scale/Potency/Tier/Quality - in order for him to even be break-even with Standard Effect...not going to happen much).  So he can deploy Grasping Shadows during a Score to (a) get a Position/Effect boost on a Stealth move or (b) level a massive AoE Control effect when they need one (which doubles in its prowess because it doesn't kill...so it doesn't generate Heat).  Its super cool and super powerful.  But there are many costs and it can absolutely go wrong and trigger Complications.Sounds like what Wizarding should be yeah?Further, maybe darkbard (the Whisper) wants to research a new Ritual that visits some horrific calamity upon one of Duskvol's wards (like a supernatural flood from the Ghost Field that prepares the way for his Goddess' return) that will (a) lay low an enemy Gang (reduce their hold and Tier as a result) while (b) keeping the Military and the Ministry and Bluecoats preoccupied so the Cult can reduce their Heat and opposition on a another Score.* Well, he's going to have learn it via an 8 segment Progress Clock (which would be triggered by an extremely dangerous Occult or Social Score with an ancient power/demon that uncovers it).  This will cost multiple Downtime Activities (probably 3) to pull off.  * Then we have to go through the procedures to resolve its creation.  This sounds like a Magnitude 6 Ritual which is enormously powerful and dangerous and volatile.   * Now he has to spend a Downtime Activity to cast it (and, again, 6 Stress to deploy!).  * Given how powerful and dangerous it is, he'll be at Desperate Position to cast via an Attune Roll (which brings big time Complications on even a 4/5 result - Success w/ Complications).* Then we create 2 Faction/Setting Clocks.  One of those is a 6d6 Fortune (for the Magnitude 6 Ritual) vs the Crew they are laying low (which they'll have an opposing dice pool based on their Tier...so probably 2-4d6).  That probably resolves within 2 Downtimes (very likely with the Crew suffering major losses and Down-Tiering).  The second one is the same 6d6 Fortune vs all the factors of the Ward (which would end up with probably a 8d6ish dice pool.  This one I would make Tug of War 10, starting at 4 (the result of the city's dice pool increasing this w/ the result of the Ritual's dice pool pulling it back).  As long as its in action, the various security of the city is compromised (creating lower opposition for Scores related to or bulwarked by the city's infrastructure/security) and Heat is lowered for Scores.  * We'll start a multi-staged Clock that they can work on to bring their Goddess into the world.  However, given the enormous danger here, we're also going to start another dangerous Clock against them called "Demonic Notice".  They can try to interact with it to prevent it from going off but that will be difficult due to the Magnitude threat they would be squaring off against.  When/if it goes off, they have a big time supernatural problem.So again, cosmic power that profoundly changes situations/setting....but massively costly...hugely volatile and dangerous...extremely limited-use...and the system has extremely robust, encoded, table-facing structure and resolution machinery to resolve all of this.Powerful, awe-inspiring, unbelievably dangerous and costly Wizardry.And neither GMs nor PCs are sitting their inhabiting the (imo utterly brutal and disruptive and not remotely fun) cognitive workspace of ARMS RACE (including legerdemain shenanigans to pilfer component pouches...extradimensional spell/book-filchers...1001 other Calvinball Blocks) TO SHUT DOWN (or facilitate if you're the PC spellcaster or Team PC) THE SPELLCASTER'S CONSTANT DOMINATION OF PLAY!</blockquote>

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