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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8316513" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>Thanks!</p><p></p><p></p><p>There are a number of Battlemaster Manuevers that don't mimic anything that a 4e Fighter did and instead mimic what a 4e Warlord did. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think the Battlemaster was intended to allow you to play a number of different concepts, one being the warlord.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's low level features are painful. By high level it actually looks decent.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's a subclass intended to allow a variety of playstyles. Warlord is one of those playstyles.</p><p></p><p>That bad EK comparison keeps getting brought up repeatedly. Should be obvious that repeating it 15 billion times doesn't make it a more compelling point.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd say you have barely scratched the surface. But it's a start.</p><p></p><p>Option 1 - also has the following cons: conceptual overlap with different mechanical implementations. Lessens the Fighters already space - leaving him more and more fighting man and nothing else. Adding in very many different mechanics for similar things can cause issues with bounded accuracy and/or multiclassing.</p><p></p><p>Option 2 - There are also variant classes, not just errata. </p><p></p><p>Option 3 - This is more the - we have considered the pros and cons of the possible solutions and determined that the doing nothing solution is better than one of the bad solutions we have. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Manuevers are very flexible. Much like a Wizard can play a necromancer or an evoker primarily based on his spell selection and this would be true even if he didn't have spell school related subclasses. The specific battlemaster implementation does them both well. Not great, but well.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not ever been a part of the Warlord concept. Most fictional Warlords were also very capable warriors. I think alot of people are probably happy that 5e doesn't ask players to pick between an elite warrior that leads and a lesser warrior that leads better.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A level 3 Battlemaster can dish out 12d8 + 36 temp hp = 90 temp hp. A life cleric using all slots on cure wounds and his channel divinity will heal = 116 hp.</p><p></p><p>That's very Warlordy to me. And at this point what Warlord implementation could possibly compete with that at level 3?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm pretty sure there's more than 4 now. I'm not up to date on all the manuevers that have been added though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 8316513, member: 6795602"] Thanks! There are a number of Battlemaster Manuevers that don't mimic anything that a 4e Fighter did and instead mimic what a 4e Warlord did. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think the Battlemaster was intended to allow you to play a number of different concepts, one being the warlord. It's low level features are painful. By high level it actually looks decent. It's a subclass intended to allow a variety of playstyles. Warlord is one of those playstyles. That bad EK comparison keeps getting brought up repeatedly. Should be obvious that repeating it 15 billion times doesn't make it a more compelling point. I'd say you have barely scratched the surface. But it's a start. Option 1 - also has the following cons: conceptual overlap with different mechanical implementations. Lessens the Fighters already space - leaving him more and more fighting man and nothing else. Adding in very many different mechanics for similar things can cause issues with bounded accuracy and/or multiclassing. Option 2 - There are also variant classes, not just errata. Option 3 - This is more the - we have considered the pros and cons of the possible solutions and determined that the doing nothing solution is better than one of the bad solutions we have. Manuevers are very flexible. Much like a Wizard can play a necromancer or an evoker primarily based on his spell selection and this would be true even if he didn't have spell school related subclasses. The specific battlemaster implementation does them both well. Not great, but well. That's not ever been a part of the Warlord concept. Most fictional Warlords were also very capable warriors. I think alot of people are probably happy that 5e doesn't ask players to pick between an elite warrior that leads and a lesser warrior that leads better. A level 3 Battlemaster can dish out 12d8 + 36 temp hp = 90 temp hp. A life cleric using all slots on cure wounds and his channel divinity will heal = 116 hp. That's very Warlordy to me. And at this point what Warlord implementation could possibly compete with that at level 3? I'm pretty sure there's more than 4 now. I'm not up to date on all the manuevers that have been added though. [/QUOTE]
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