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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8318753" data-attributes="member: 7030563">A Rogue is penalized just as much as a fighter for pumping INT or CHA.  You have to pull those stats from somewhere.I don't think it should be and I covered this.  You said the Noble should be its own class because the cleric is even though we have the accolyte.  Your argument is not valid because a cleric is not an accolyte and the cleric class has nothing to do with the accolyte background.Niether can a Rogue.Nonsense.  At first level someone with Proficiency and a +1 is as good as someone with a 16 (which is the absolute most a character from a normal race can have).  By 5th level they have completely passed the character without proficiency unless they are taking ASIs in that trait as well.Then don't stick your fighter on the front line fighting 90% of the time.  That is a choice.  Action surge ca be used for any action, it does not have to be swinging a sword.It is not true, that is what I am not getting.RAW at 5th level such a fighter will pass every single very easy check he makes, 75% of the easy checks, and 50% of the medium checks.Those are most of the checks he will make and he will pass well over half of them.So to correct your statement at 5th level and above the fighter will PASS most of the checks he makes in a skill he is proficient in with a mere 12 in the ability score.Take skill expert or prodigy at 4th level because you really want to lean into playing a noble and now at 5th level you will you will pass every single very easy check, 90% of the easy checks and 65% of the medium checks.That is without using any dice to boost it, without any subclass features and without using the position of privilege feature that came with your background.  Use any of those and it boosts it even more.I think I did in my post.  Fighters are a class.  As a class they are experts in using weapons and armor and can heal themselves several times a day.  At higher levels they can break action economy and have extraordinary resilience.Beyond that framework you can make them whatever you want.  They can be leaders, scholars, aristocrats, scoundrels, bandits, kings, religious zealots, literally anything you want.Yes you are nerfing one pillar to be better in another.  That is the whole idea of choices.</blockquote>

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