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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8319040" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Steady aim is useful at times, both in melee and ranged, but hardly somethign you can do effectively every single turn, especially with cover.The Rogue is fighting with a melee character to get SA and without that other character he sucks.  He is pretty bad unless you build him specifically to be able to reliably create his own sneak attack and if you do that without picking a race that gets medium armor you are way behind.People are throwing up all these conditions - the Rogue can do as much damage IF there is another PC in melee, he doesn't need a blocking character because another PC is doing that.  If those things are true he won't get attacked a lot so he worse AC won't matter and he will reliably do SA so he can keep it close in damage.  IF-IF-IF then he can almost keep up with a fighter.All of that is conditions and it illustrates why as a class the Rogues are inferior to a fighter in combat.A fighter needs none of that.  He can be surrounded by orcs and still do full damage.  The entire party can even be down and he is still a combat machine.  And that is still true if he came to your table with a 16/8/10 S/D/C and you laughed.They have the highest mobility in the game, higher even than a Monk until very high levels.  But their AC is bad unless they are an AT with shield or they get medium armor through a feat or race.I am playing 5E according to the rules.  The maximum AC a point buy Rogue can have at 1st level is 15 without a feat or racial ability, that is tied for THE WORST in the game.  Here are classes ranked first to last in terms of maximum AC at first level.Fighter: 21Paladin: 20Cleric: 19 (20 if he picks a subclass with heavy armor, and more with spells)Ranger: 19Artificer: 19Barbarian: 19Druid: 17Wizard/sorcerer: 16 (21 with shield)Warlock: 15 (or 19 for a hexblade or 24 with a hexblade with shield)Rogue/Bard: 15Now Rogues will usually have a better dexterity than some of the others near the bottom so that may move them up a spot or two, and if they pump dext they can boost it to 17, but even with maximum dexterity, their 17 AC will still be among the worst of any class and it will stay that way unless they get a feat, spell, magic item or racial ability that improves it.Fans are wrong and 5E rules say both knight and noble PCs can be any class.You said " because your fighter will fail most of their checks."       Underline and bold is yours.  A moderate check is DC 15.  At 5th level and above a fighter proficient with a a 12  will not fail most moderate checks.If you were talking about moderate checks you then you were just wrong.Most CR1 monsters have checks well below 14.  For example Imp poision is 11, Harpy song is 11, Quasit scare is 10, Ghoul paralyzation is 10, Brass Dragon Wyrmling breath is 11.  All of those are CR 1 monsters.It is good if it is the kind of character you want to play.  Also for clarity it is 8 Dex and 10 con (although I may have put them backwards earlier).No it isn't and I play with all kinds of DMs both in person and online, so it is a large sample.  I just don't believe I have to build a fighter to a stereotype.  Let the Rogue be the guy to hold down enemies in place if that is what he wants to do, let me do my thing.</blockquote>

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