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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8319042" data-attributes="member: 7015698">And a Fighter can't do what a Rogue does easily, that's why they're different classes. Not sure why that's an issue. If I want to play a Fighter I'm not gonna try to contort the Rogue into one, same for the other way around. They exist as different class for a friggin' reaosn.First of all, Plate Mail is 18 AC. That's 20 with a shield, not 21. 20 with a shield means no reach weapon.Secondly, that Plate Mail is a whopping 1500 GP. Nobody can afford that at first level. That's 'party investment' money for a while.EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot the defensive fighting style... Okay 21... but you're still not getting that Plate Mail at first level. The Rogue's maximum AC, if they get Shield prof, is 19. That's only 2 point below.You don't need to be 'as good' as a Fighter, you just need to be good enough to defeat the enemies placed in front of you. You're not in a competition with the Fighter.The point is that the Rogue doesn't need to compromise that baseline effectiveness to be good at out of combat stuff. And even if they DO invest more in combat stuff, like your insistence that Rogue need STR and Half-Plates to survive, they can still kick butt out of combat thanks to Expertise and, eventually, Reliable Talent. The Rogue is equipped to reduce the impact of its lower AC through its features and by using good tactics and movements.The Fighter has to go MAD to gain any sort of baseline skill roll that doesn't involve STR or DEX because their class doesn't give them SQUAT to do with any mental stats. Rolls that the Rogue can blow out of the water with no effort and no sacrifice at all.Optimizing a Fighter for combat will result in a stronger output than a Rogue, they have a higher power ceiling than the Rogue, but they get way more punished for investing in a mental stat by a complete lack of synergy with their class features.</blockquote>

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