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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8320271" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Not 5e Wise people you haven't  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I get the complaint you are making but the complaint isn't about wisdom and perception really - it's about every stat and skill system ever made, because such edge cases are always going to be a problem no matter what way we group things together to categorize them.  It's not a 5e problem it's more of an any game problem.(*I hear the particular complaint you raised here the most from people that feel perception is one of the strongest skills in the game, but I don't believe it is.  It's a skill I'd love for someone in the party to possess, but it's kind of redundant when everyone takes it.)I think that kind of an issue is more related to DMing style than 5e itself.  'How does one allow every character to legitimately participate in the social game?'There's lots of things to be done:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Have NPC's take interest in non-face characters due to their personality/class abilities/etc. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Don't allow players to call for social checks</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Don't call for many social checks</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Don't make failure of social checks lead to instant hostilities (or other very bad things)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Etc.</li> </ul>Now all your players can feel free to interact with NPC's and they will shine there all the same.  One doesn't need a +17 persuasion and to interact socially in meaningful ways.That hasn't ever happened in our games.  Sounds more like a player problem than a 5e problem.  IMO.I don't think I understand this point?</blockquote>

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