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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 274661" data-attributes="member: 4937">Oni: Let's just clarify something.  Did I say Spell Casting Prodigy was a game breaker?  I think I said: "I think it is only a no brainer for Human spellcasters, and maybe not even then."  So it's not like I'm calling this the be all end all of spellcaster feat selection.But it is a darn good feat.One feat gives you at least one and likely two additional spells per day, AND increases the DC of all your spells regardless of school by 1.  I think I'll buy that for a dollar.  What else am I going to buy?Well, there are a couple of good Item Creation feats, but unless my DM is particularly stingy with magic, I probably only need Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand.  That's two feats, one of which I get for free as a wizard.   If I was really in to artificing I might get Craft Wondrous Item, just because it is so general purpose.  However, I'd not go over board here in anything but an ultra-low magic campaign.And there are a couple of good Metamagic feats, but again I'd not go overboard here before Epic Levels make Metamagic more fun.  Empower is good, but I can do the same thing in most cases by just taking a higher level spell with similar function.  Quicken can get you out of a jam, but you probably won't be carrying more than one or two quickened spells because Quicken eats up your best spells.  If you are a Cleric, you'll probably be happy with Extend and Persistant and thats it.  If I'm a sorcerer, I'm going to live without Metamagic.  I've got too few feats to waste on it.  If I'm a wizard, I'll might take Heighten if I'm an Enchanter, Empower if I'm into Evocation, and everybody is going to want some combination of Quicken, Extend, Persistant, Still, and Silent.  At some point you might want Twin, Widen, or Chain. But again, I wouldn't go overboard.  In a given list of spells, you probably only are carrying one or two that is metamagiced with a given feat.  And no matter how many metamagic feats you have (even if you have all of them) you aren't going to apply them but to a small percentage of the total spells you can cast.  So, Persistant Spell for clerics aside, they have quite low actual utility in my experience.  If you have more than three or four, you probably have too many.For a wizard, that leaves me 5-8 feats that I'm going to spend on making sure that my spells work: Combat Casting, Spell Casting Prodigy, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Initiative, and so forth.  Skill Focus (Spellcraft) I can wait on until its needed.  It won't help me all that much until it is a prequisite for something.  Ditto to Persistant Spell, since it won't help me before 9th level and I have two chances (at 3rd and 6th) to take Extend Spell (which won't help me at all at 1st).I just don't understand why you are obsessed with the 'just 5%' aspect of +1.  Isn't Weapon Focus, 'just 5%'?  Isn't Masterwork, 'just 5%'?  Isn't each +1 enhancement bonus, 'just 5%'?  Isn't min/maxing about squeezing the rules till they yield you that extra 5%?  If my 'just 5%' turns the difficult of my saving throw from 'needs to roll a 19 or better' to 'needs to roll a 20 or better', I'm going to half the number of critters that make thier saves and similar (though less extreme) logic applies whenever I've squeezed hard enough that the save DC's against my spells are relatively high compared to the average saving throw bonus of critters I'm likely to face at my level.</blockquote>

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