Spells for Non-Spellcasters 101

[Tuzenbach]

Tired of the clunky, old Fighter/Wizard/Ranger/Rogue/Sorcerer/Cleric scenario? Wish your Fighter or Barbarian could nonchalantly pull a spell from up his or her sleave when the going gets tough, but don't desire to add a whole new class to the build? Fancy a single, 4th level Arcane spell, yet are made naseus by all the rest?! Then have I got the perfect solution for you!!!

Spells For Non-Spellcasters 101

Once upon a time, my Dwarven Fighter was dungeoneering and stumbled across a bookcase in a Wizard's Laboratory. He touched a book, and voila! He then possessed the ability to cast a Fireball spell, free of charge! This got me to thinking, if a non-spellcasting class can "accidentally" learn a spell without it affecting his class make-up, why could not the same class learn a single (or slight handful of) spell(s) on purpose? Hence, my scheme:

1. This is for non-spellcasters; Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues, Monks, Assassins, Cavaliers, etc.

2. The aforementioned-classed character must first desire to learn a spell (obviously).

3. The character from above must then seek out a mentor. This person has to be from one of the primary spellcasting classes (Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, & Druid) and must know the spell being sought. The mentor must also be twice the level of the learner.

4. The character must meet the level prerequisite ordinarily associated with the spell. This varies in the following manner: if a non-spellcasting class wishes to learn Fireball from a Sorcerer, the would-be learner must wait until 6th level. However, should the teacher be a Wizard, the pupil can learn the spell at 5th level. This reflects the prerequisite levels associated with the respective mentors. It's not that Wizards are necessarily superior teachers, but that they have access to higher level spells quicker than Sorcerers.
If, however, a character wished to learn a Divine spell (as oppposed to the above Arcane example), either Clerics or Druids mentor equally.

5. The non-spellcasting character pays for the spell in two ways:

a) Experience Points & Gold. This is determined via the following equation: Spell Level Squared x 1000. Thus, learning a 4th level spell would cost 4x4x1000 or 16,000. Aha, but 16,000 what? This total can be equally divided between gold and experience (8,000 each) or divided non-equally out to a ratio of 75% to 25% or anywhere in between. Hence, the learner MUST pay either 4,000 in gold OR experience points and have the 12,000 be made up of the other, or have combinations anywhere in between. In no event will the smaller sum be lower than 25% of the total cost, so a 15,000 gp and 1,000 exp. buy is out of the question.

b) Physical Ability OR Hit Point Loss. The other portion of the buying procedure takes the form of EITHER (payer's choice) the loss of physical ability points OR hit points. The former follows this equation: Spell Level/2 rounded up. Thus, if a 5th level spell is learned it's 5 divided by 2 (2.5) and then rounded up (3). The player must then decide where the 3 ability points will be lost. The choices are Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. The point loss can be 2 from CON and 1 from STR, 1 from DEX and 2 from CON, or whichever combination is desired by the learner. This is done to simulate the slight shift in focus off the fighting or stealth attributes and on to the more mental pursuit of learning a spell.

The alternate choice would be a hit point loss, again, to simulate "mental studying" rather than "physical studying". This figure is based upon the following equation: 7 x Spell Level. Thus, learning a 6th level spell would leave the character EITHER 1) down 3 physical attribute points, OR 2) down 42 hit points. Again, it's the player's choice. Unlike the gold and experience point payment from above, this cannot be equally or otherwise divided between ability score points and hit points.

6. The amount of time it takes to acquire the spell equals 1 month per spell level. The character has to learn the spell from the same mentor the entire time and cannot just nonchalantly "switch" teachers at some intermediate point. To do this, the character would have to start the process all over again. Thus, if a character sets out to learn a 9th level spell and his or her mentor died after 8 months of tutelage, the character is out of luck. The gold and experience points aren't refundable (these are lost at the beginning of the process), though the ability and hit points are kept (these are lost upon learning the spell).

7. For purposes of spell use, the principle ability score of the non-spellcasting class in question is based upon that of the mentor. Hence, if the mentor was a Sorcerer, Charisma would be the relevant ability (where applicable), Wisdom for a Cleric or Druidic tutor, and Intelligence for a Wizard tutor.

 

[rbingham2000]

If there are no magic-users in the party, I can definitely see wanting to do this. Non-spellcasters will most certainly want to be able to counter the powers of their sorcerous enemies. And some of the spells on the list are very effective in the hands of certain classes.

True Strike, in particular, can be absolutely vicious in the hands of an archer.

 

[Tuzenbach]

If there are no magic-users in the party, I can definitely see wanting to do this. Non-spellcasters will most certainly want to be able to counter the powers of their sorcerous enemies. And some of the spells on the list are very effective in the hands of certain classes.

True Strike, in particular, can be absolutely vicious in the hands of an archer.

Feedback! AT LAST!

Hey, I'm glad you liked my little house rule thingy. And just for you, I'm going to amend one of the payment criteria regarding hit points which, after seven hours of thought, seemed a bit unfair to me. It's no longer 7 hit points per spell level, but one half the value of the character's hit dice (so, 3 for Rogues, 5 for Fighters, 6 for Barbarians, etc.) per spell level. Thus, if a Barbarian wanted to buy a 5th level spell, it's hit point cost would be 30 (spell level [5] times half the dice type [6]). However, the hit point cost for a Rogue buying the same spell would be only 15. Fair enough?

 

[Drizzt Clone]

I like the 2nd hp loss system better. How many uses per day does a character have for each spell?

 

[Dakkareth]

How many times per day would the spell be usable? Once? Twice? At will?

Also the cost seems a little high to me. Let's say, a paladin wants to learn a 9th level spell. By your system he'd have to pay 20'250 XP, 60'750 GP and either 5 ability points or 45 HP.

Yep, that's right. Instead of going epic he spends the XP for almost an entire level to get this one ability, which might not even be that useful. He could also use this much XP to create a weapon in the artifact range of power. The gain just doesn't compare to the cost at this level.

I'd propose a much simpler system for costs: Calculate the cost of a slotless command-word activated wondrous item casting the desired spell. Multiply the result with a factor you feel adequate (the ability is more powerful as it can't be taken away, etc). Pay the XP cost and GP, study long enough and you have the ability. For flavor you could require the character to one HP per spell level worth of damage every time he casts the spell.

Let's say, the factor for an inherent ability or however we want to call it is 2.

We want a 9th level spell, so we create an appropriate item:

((9 * 17 * 1800) / 5) *2 = 110160 GP and 4406 XP for 1 use per day

Times two makes 220320 GP and 8813 XP. Costly, but appropriate.

Much more intuitive IMO. And it works for anyone - a rogue wants to be able to turn invisible three times per day, a ranger wants to tree stride once per day, a paladin wants to use a holy word? No problem, just pay the XP cost.

 

[Vrecknidj]

The mentor must also be twice the level of the learner.

You have to find someone who is twice your level? What if you're 12th level? Why should a 12th level fighter not be able to learn to cast fireball just because there aren't any 24th level wizards running around, but a 5th level fighter can learn it no problem because there are 10th level wizards running around?

Dave

 

[Tuzenbach]

You have to find someone who is twice your level? What if you're 12th level? Why should a 12th level fighter not be able to learn to cast fireball just because there aren't any 24th level wizards running around, but a 5th level fighter can learn it no problem because there are 10th level wizards running around?

Dave

Because the more one progresses along a set path, the more closed off one's mind becomes to new things and ideas. A 5th level Fighter would be much easier to teach than a 12th level Fighter. Do you really think a 12th level Fighter would be able to respect the teachings of a 10th level underling? I don't.

Besides, 12th level Fighters are nearly juggernauts as it is. Adding a Fireball spell to their already impressive repertoire SHOULD NOT be as easy as a 5th level Fighter doing the same thing.

 

[Tuzenbach]

I like the 2nd hp loss system better. How many uses per day does a character have for each spell?

It would be the same number of uses per day as if the learner was what the mentor's class was. So if the learner was an 8th level Fighter and had a Wizard as a mentor, the number of uses per day assumes the character is an 8th level Wizard, even though he's not.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Also the cost seems a little high to me. Let's say, a paladin wants to learn a 9th level spell. By your system he'd have to pay 20'250 XP, 60'750 GP and either 5 ability points or 45 HP.

Yep, that's right. Instead of going epic he spends the XP for almost an entire level to get this one ability, which might not even be that useful. He could also use this much XP to create a weapon in the artifact range of power. The gain just doesn't compare to the cost at this level.

Well, when you take into consideration the fact that Wish becomes available at that price, I'd say it's quite a bargain!

I'd propose a much simpler system for costs:

I'm all ears! ;~D

Calculate the cost of a slotless command-word activated wondrous item casting the desired spell.

Forgive my ignorance at this point, but I lack all 3.5 books and am only going by rudimentary logic and the 3.0 DMG & PHB. Wherein can I find what you're referring to?

Multiply the result with a factor you feel adequate

So..........a completely subjective variable, then?

(the ability is more powerful as it can't be taken away, etc). Pay the XP cost and GP, study long enough and you have the ability. For flavor you could require the character to one HP per spell level worth of damage every time he casts the spell.

Let's say, the factor for an inherent ability or however we want to call it is 2.

We want a 9th level spell, so we create an appropriate item:

((9 * 17 * 1800) / 5) *2 = 110160 GP and 4406 XP for 1 use per day.

Afraid I'm completely lost! This is supposed to be "simpler"?! ;~D

(Times two makes 220320 GP and 8813 XP. Costly, but appropriate.

So, roughly 4x the gold, yet 1/3 the experience point cost? I'm sorry, but at 17th level, a couple hundred thousand in gold seems like loose change, but players (like yourself) would still be reluctant to part with the 20k in experience for, like you say, it stunts your growth by a level. But heck, if you've gotten all the way to level 17, you can wait a little bit longer to get to level 18. Otherwise, it's no cost, no cost at all. The whole idea is that a sufficient cost MUST be involved as a system of checks and balances. Otherwise, how does it look? Not only were you about to become 18th level, but you'll now have a nice Wish spell to take with you on your now Epic quests. No, the 20k in experience MUST be paid.

And in terms of either the ability or hit point loss.......a 17th level Paladin would (assuming the character has no hit point feats or Con bounses, which is a highly unreasonable assumption!) have either 76 or 77 hit points. Again, this is only if the DM is ultra-conservative and won't allow re-roles for ones or twos or threes. Though factor in a normal DM, a high Con, some hit point feats, and voila! We're now looking at a Paladin with between 120 and 150 hit points at 17th level, easily. Tell me, who's more dangerous? An 18th level Paladin with 150 hit points, or a 17th level Paladin with 105 hit points and the ability to use a Wish spell as a 17th level Wizard? Hmmmm. I'd rather be the latter!

Much more intuitive IMO.

Ah, thanks loads for insulting my intuition! I'm glad I used it to successfully defend the experience point cost of my idea in the face of your greedy assault! ;~D

And it works for anyone - a rogue wants to be able to turn invisible three times per day, a ranger wants to tree stride once per day, a paladin wants to use a holy word? No problem, just pay the XP cost.

Again, 3x per day versus once per day and Holy Word versus Invisibility.....these are a lot more subjective variables than objective ones. Such subjectivity is frivolous at best in situations where such powers and abilities can now be "doled out" accordingly (DM permitting!) in game scenarios. In short, fixed costs must be maintained at all times. Besides, this was for the gaining of spells, not abilities or powers.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Cheaper is better

Besides, this was for the gaining of spells, not abilities or powers.

Nitpicky: Don't you mean gaining the ability or power to cast a spell?

Dakkareth makes a very good point, why would I, as a character, desire to jump through the hoops of your system when its cheaper and easier to get a Wonderous Item that gives me the *exact same ability*?

((9 * 17 * 1800) / 5) *2 = 110160 GP and 4406 XP for 1 use per day.

This is the cost of a slotless Wonderous Item that can cast a 9th level spell once a day from the 3.5 DMG..This is the cheapest way I could be carrying around a Wish spell.

(Times two makes 220320 GP and 8813 XP. Costly, but appropriate.

Multiplied by the 'subjective' variable 'Inherent Modifier' to make up for the fact that is not dispellable, stealable, etc.

Such subjectivity is frivolous at best

You, as the GM, decide what value you place the 'Inherent Modifier' at. Are items dispelled/stolen often? Then this value should be higher to reflect the greater advantage it offers. This is based on your campaign.. and is highly subjective and not at all frivilous. Perhaps it could be set to the level of the spell in question, drastically increasing the costs of higher level spells. But as noted above, if you increase it too much :\


Other comments on your system:
The spell needs to be set at a certain caster level, not set to equal the characters total level. Cost out the price for a 1st level archer to learn Magic Missile 'at will' under your system. Now advance that archer up to 20th level.... is the XP cost significant for the power gained? I would suggest the caster level be set when the spell is learned, at the lowest level of either the student or the teacher...or lower if the teacher desires.
Do you require spell components? Does a Diety get to revoke the use of a Divine Spell.. or does the characters faith matter? Can the character train another to use that spell?
Why, in a world where you can't see a characters label that reads 'Wiz10', wouldn't a warrior labeled 'Fighter15' not see the wisdom in learning from this 'underling' whose abilities in the Arcane far outstrip his own?

I do like the idea of non-spell casting classes having minor access to some spells. IMHO the multi-classing rules and provisions for magic items does a good job of maintaining balance and provide for this. Your system, as presented, is so expensive that I have problems seeing a character gaining advantage from it.

I am starting to use the 'Elements of Magic' supplement, which includes 'Permanent Spells'. Bascially you turn the character into a wonderous item. The balancing factor is that only 12 magic effects can be operating on a character at a given time, so getting a permanent 'Fireball' ability reduces what other magic you can carry. I am contemplating allowing non-spellcasters to take some of the Feats that grant spell points and spell lists.. essentially becoming 1st level wizards at the cost of 2 feats.

Anyway,