Spellweaver CR10??

[shilsen]

Of course, a CR 10 doesn't mean it's designed to go toe to toe with a single level 10 character. It's meant to go against FOUR level 10 characters.....

Actually a CR10 means it's supposed to be precisely as tough as a single level 10 character. It's meant to present a reasonable challenge for four level 10 characters, i.e. a challenge they should be able to beat without taking any losses and using about 20% of their resources.

 

[Gort]

It's MEANT to be, but "a good challenge for a 10th level party" does not equal "as tough as one 10th level character", and that's becoming more and more apparent the more monsters get released.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Hello,

Actually a CR10 means it's supposed to be precisely as tough as a single level 10 character.

Not exactly.

A CR 10 creature is meant to be approximately as challenging an encounter as a 10th level NPC.

A 10th level PC will have more gear and the benefit of his buddies' cooperative magic (i.e. buffs, healing, etc...).

J. Grenemyer

 

[Anony Mouse]

Id be interested in what strategies people would use with this creature. 6 spell levels per round in any combination.

(Note spell-abilities: See invis always active, detect magic and invisibility at will) Assuming only these are activated prior to combat.

 

[shilsen]

Id be interested in what strategies people would use with this creature. 6 spell levels per round in any combination.

(Note spell-abilities: See invis always active, detect magic and invisibility at will) Assuming only these are activated prior to combat.

Considering how weak the creature is, assuming that it hasn't had a chance to buff up beforehand, I'd spend the first round getting some distance away with a dimension door or teleport and then putting up appropriate spells before coming back to cause some damage. Load up on mage armor, shield, fly, and probably resist energy, blink, and/or greater invisibility.

 

[hobgoblin]

Basically, a creature with CR x is expected to use up about 25% of the resources of a 4-PC party consisting of a fighter, a rogue, a cleric and a wizard, all of level x. It is a rule of thumb (not a scientifically exact measure) to determine how challenging a creature is likely to be, but DM judgement is still required. A "non-standard" party, e.g. one consisting of more front-line meleers and less spellcasters, will have a harder time with some encounters of its CR and an easier time with others.

Note that resources includes spells, charged magic items, equipment, daily uses of abilities, etc. A party that is uninjured but has still expended spells and ammunition on an encounter has still drained its resources (some DMs forget this on occasion, and a TPK sometimes results).

so basicly if im to try and create a creature of my own its 100% guesswork what will kill them or not? nice...

 

[FireLance]

so basicly if im to try and create a creature of my own its 100% guesswork what will kill them or not? nice...

This is what I do to make sure it's not 100% guesswork:

1. Know your player's characters. Know what they are capable of and what they are likely to do.

2. Have a look at your creature's best attacks. If it makes average rolls, how quickly will it kill the entire party? Be extra careful of save-or-die effects and area effects that can damage the entire party at once.

3. Have a look at the party's best attacks. Which party member is likely to do the most damage against it? If the monster has low AC, spell resistance or energy resistance, it is probably the fighter-type. If the monster has high AC or damage reduction, it is probably the wizard. How quickly will he take it down? Be very careful if it looks like the creature will defeat the party before the party defeats it.

[You could run a simulated combat in place of steps 2 and 3, but that may be time-consuming.]

4. How much warning and clues will you give the party about the creature's attacks and defences? If the creature has abilities the party is unaware of or unprepared for, it could result in a TPK.

It sounds rather complicated on paper, but after DMing for a while, you'll get an intuitive feel of a party's capabilities against the various monsters. While doing so, my personal advice is to err on the side of less dangerous creatures. You can always increase the tension by adding another creature if the party defeats one easily. It is more difficult to work around a character death or a TPK.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Considering how weak the creature is, assuming that it hasn't had a chance to buff up beforehand, I'd spend the first round getting some distance away with a dimension door or teleport and then putting up appropriate spells before coming back to cause some damage. Load up on mage armor, shield, fly, and probably resist energy, blink, and/or greater invisibility.

This is close to the strategy I'd use as well. Off the top of my head:

The SW begins already invisible. When it detects the PCs approproaching (in rounds):

1: Teleport to hidden nest, cast Mage Armor.
2: Cast Shield, Mirror Image, and Protection from Energy (fire).
3: Cast Protection from Energy (electricity), Protection from Energy (cold), and Protection from Energy (sonic).
4: Cast Fly and False Life.
5: Cast Cat's Grace, and Greater Invisibility.
6: Teleport back to previous location.
7: Open with a volley of six Magic Missiles for 30d4+30 against any spellcasters.
8: If the Magic Missiles killed the previous target, do the same to the next. If they were effective but did not kill the previous target, fire another volley at that target. If the missiles were blocked somehow (such as with a Shield spell or Brooch of Shielding,) fire off 6 scorching rays for 24d6 fire damage instead.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If it has comparable abilities to a character, it's CR is equal to that character.

In the case of this thing, it's got comparable abilities to a sorceror with gear and day-long buffs. It's CR 12.

It's definately not CR 10, just because it's a level 12 sorceror+

 

[Majere]

I dont believe the CRx= single player of level X. A dragon of any CR could eat alive a single PC of the same level, as could most monsters in the MM. CR's are based on the challenge presented to a BALANCED PARTY.

The problem is that a single level X character fails to be an appropriate challenge for a party of 4 level X characters after about 7th level (possibly before). For instance a level 7 fighter is no challenge at all for a level 7 party. And certainly not one liable to burn up 25% of the parties resources.

Once the middle levels are reached the gap becomes every bigger. A single level 15 mage agaisnt a level 15 party will struggle to drain even 10% of the parties resources. If you let him buff up and ambush the party, then you have to add a circumstancial increase to his CR (maybe CR 16-17). So from a straight fight point of view, the level 15 mage will probably be ground into dust on the first round of combat by the charging fighter/barbarian/paladin. (smart fighter holds until cleric greater dispels the enemy, Mage readies a greater dispel as a counterspell attempt, then fighter powerattacks the ass off the enemy mage).

Thus, when you reach middlelvels if you have not experienced actually using the monster, then CR's may seem "out of whack". The only test for a CR is to run the monster against parties hundreds of times, and work out roughly how much of party resourses are used given average dice rolls.

Majere