Spike Stones- How do you deal with this spell

[Ulari]

Greetings.

I appologise if this has been discussed before, but I am unable to search through the Rules forum.

I am running a campaign, and one of my players is a 6th level Druid. He is looking forward to 7th level and the ability to cast Spike Stones (4th level Druid spell). I have read the spell and I foresee having dificulty dealing with it in my campaign...

I came here to ask for advice on how to work with this spell, and hear any of your solutions.

My specific concerns with th spell are:
It is impossible for non rogues to detect.
It covers a huge area.
It deals damage with no saving throw.
It lasts for a long long time.
It can be cast almost anywhere (unlike entangle).

My questions are:
At what point can a creature encountering a Spike Stoned area stop its movement?
If a creature takes damage from a Spike Stoned area (by running 20' into it), and then they try and walk back out, they take the damage again?

Has this spell been a problem in any of your campaigns?

Any input is appreciated.

Ulari

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From the SRD:

Spike Stones
Transmutation [Earth]
Level: Drd 4, Earth 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: One 20-ft. square/level
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Rocky ground, stone floors, and similar surfaces shape themselves into long, sharp points that blend into the background.
Spike stones impede progress through an area and deal damage. Any creature moving on foot into or through the spell’s area moves at half speed.
In addition, each creature moving through the area takes 1d8 points of piercing damage for each 5 feet of movement through the spiked area.
Any creature that takes damage from this spell must also succeed on a Reflex save to avoid injuries to its feet and legs. A failed save causes the creature’s speed to be reduced to half normal for 24 hours or until the injured creature receives a cure spell (which also restores lost hit points). Another character can remove the penalty by taking 10 minutes to dress the injuries and succeeding on a Heal check against the spell’s save DC.
Spike stones is a magic trap that can’t be disabled with the Disable Device skill.
Note: Magic traps such as spike stones are hard to detect. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find spike stones. The DC is 25 + spell level, or DC 29 for spike stones.

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[CrimsonTemplar]

I'd say that as long as the creature didn't declare a charge or a run they can stop as soon as they take damage. Every square the creature moves thru that is in the area of effect causes damage.

Consider lots of floaty things, creatures with DR & incorporeal creatures if this becomes a standard spell for the Druid. Also consider forcing them to move thru it so he has to dismiss it or dispelling.

 

[Pielorinho]

I assume folks can stop as soon as they take damage, even if they were charging or running. The alternative seems to be to assume they must continue running for up to fifty feet even once they start taking damage, and that seems bizarre to me. If you wanta compromise, you could give the spell a reflex save for runners/chargers; if they fail, they go an extra 5 feet or so. (Or if you wanna get complicated with it, determine how much farther they run using a version of the bull rush rules that substitutes the reflex save and the DC for the opposed checks).

Daniel

 

[Rel]

I assume folks can stop as soon as they take damage, even if they were charging or running.

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems silly that a creature would continue to run, possibly taking fatal damage, even after it is apparent that doing so is dangerous.

I've been dealing with this spell for some time in my own campaign and it has certainly proved tricky for the bad guys sometimes. But it isn't a magic bullet by any means.

I don't know about yours but my group is, in general, far stronger at melee combat than at ranged combat. If they trap the bad guys in a Spike Stones spell, they'll have to content themselves with attacking from range and this means the enemy can do the same thing. Make sure that some of their opponents have good ranged capabilities. Another issue here is healing magic. Have some of the enemy have some potions or a wand they can use to heal themselves. Then it becomes an issue of "If that damn Spike Stones wasn't there, we could go kill them before they use up all our potential treasure!"

Also, once in a while, have a bad guy who can turn the spell against them. I recently ran an encounter where the party ran into some teleporting demons, one of whose favorite tactics was to grapple an enemy, teleport them somewhere unpleasant and then leave them there. The Druid cast Spike Stones and I considered having the demons teleporting out to grab a party member and then popping back into the Spiked area. As it turned out, there were more pressing matters for the demons and they didn't employ that tactic, but I did file it away in my "RBDM Tricks" file for later.

 

[Ulari]

Thanks for your replies.

I was leaning towards the 'bad guys can stop running when they realize it hurts' answer, but I was hesitant for fear of reducing a 4th level spell's damage output to roughly 1d8 per enemy.

Given your responses and the logic behind them, I am prepared to rule it that way... Now Spike Stones will be an 'area denial' spell rather than a 'kill them all spell'.

Having this ruling before players start casting the spell should avoid some arguments (and lost gaming time). I'll just suggest to the Druid if he wants to do lost of damage, Flame Strike is the spell for him

Thanks,
Ulari

 

[Pielorinho]

Given your responses and the logic behind them, I am prepared to rule it that way... Now Spike Stones will be an 'area denial' spell rather than a 'kill them all spell'.

That sounds exactly right to me: it's more akin to a wall spell than to a fireball or acid fog spell. Good uses of it include:
1) Wounded bad guys trying to escape? Not so fast, buddy!
2) Wounded good guys trying to escape? Spike stone the ground behind you to deter chase.
3) If you've got a party that can all fly, spike stone the ground and force a running battle.
4) If you've got a party with good ranged attacks, spike the ground between yourselves and your enemies.
5) If the bad guys are likely to have reinforcements arrive, spike the ground that the reinforcements will have to cross.

But as you can see, these uses are all pretty specialized. I played a druid for a long time, and this spell really wasn't incredibly useful, especially when compared to flame strike. Eventually I would only prepare it if I knew I was going to be facing fire-resistant bad guys.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Oh, and lovely trick, Rel -- I'll have to remember that one!

Daniel

 

[Rel]

Oh, and lovely trick, Rel -- I'll have to remember that one!

Daniel

Bar-Lgura, Book of Vile Darkness Page 171-172

 

[Greatwyrm]

Given your responses and the logic behind them, I am prepared to rule it that way... Now Spike Stones will be an 'area denial' spell rather than a 'kill them all spell'.

Having this ruling before players start casting the spell should avoid some arguments (and lost gaming time). I'll just suggest to the Druid if he wants to do lost of damage, Flame Strike is the spell for him

Having played a mid-level druid for a while, I found that a Druid's spell selection was much better used as area control than direct damage. Sure, there's always Flame Strike. But the big area spells like Entangle, Spike Growth, Spike Stones, Wall of Thorns, etc. are all bets used not to do damage, but to control the enemy's movement. Make them go where you want or to pay dearly for it. That's a lot more powerful that some people think about.

 

[Coredump]

Well, technically I would say it was 2d8. They move in 5' and take d8, to leave they have to go out 5', and another d8.

OTOH, it is only a DC10 to jump the 5' out, (DC is double the distance)


The next question, is what happens when it is cast centered on the monsters.
Ninth level casts it

SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSMMSSSSSS
SSSSMMSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS

Note, the M is the monsters, but it has Spikes there also. So, do the monsters take damage just from standing there? If they try and leave, they will take at least 6d8, or they can just stay put for 9 hours or so....