Level Up (A5E) Spike growth question

[PauloR]

The spike growth spell states, and i quote

" A creature that can’t see the area when the spell is cast can spot the hazardous terrain just before entering it by making a Perception check against your spell save DC."

Does the creature need to spend an action to search and thus make the check or is it done just as the altargrt approaches the area?

Another unrelated question
Why did plant growth became a 3rd level spell? It is 2nd level in 5e.

Cheers

 

[Distracted DM]

Another unrelated question
Why did plant growth became a 3rd level spell? It is 2nd level in 5e.

Double-check, plant growth is 3rd in 5e14 and 24

 

[PauloR]

Double-check, plant growth is 3rd in 5e14 and 24
View attachment 396520

My bad, it is indeed 3rd level, I went by memory on this one

 

[PauloR]

Still curious about the first part though. How have you been adjusting the spell?

 

[lichmaster]

The spike growth spell states, and i quote

" A creature that can’t see the area when the spell is cast can spot the hazardous terrain just before entering it by making a Perception check against your spell save DC."

Does the creature need to spend an action to search and thus make the check or is it done just as the altargrt approaches the area?

I'd say: if they don't suspect the spell has been cast at all, they shouldn't have a reason to spend an action to scan the area, so they'd do that passively. Thus they'd use their passive perception but not spend an action.
Viceversa, if they have a reason to suspect a spell has been cast before they can see the affected area, they can justify to the DM that they'll carefully scan the area. In this case I'd make them roll but spend the action (unless they have a trait that allows them to do so as a bonus action).

This is further justified by the Passive Checks section in the rules:

The most common use of a passive check is a passive Wisdom (Perception) check. When a character first experiences a new scene or location, the Narrator describes what they sense based on their perceptiveness. A highly perceptive character might automatically detect dangers a less perceptive character wouldn’t notice, such as hidden opponents or traps.

The spell explicitly states that a perception check is required, thus the spikes are not obvious and could be missed by a less perceptice character.

 

[PauloR]

Makes sense, so it's passive Perception if they don't want to / have no reason to spend and Acton to look for danger.

Still seems odd that if they are proficient in Perception and their wis is greater than my wis, they automatically see it. The spell says the area looks natural.

 

[lichmaster]

Still seems odd that if they are proficient in Perception and their wis is greater than my wis, they automatically see it. The spell says the area looks natural.

Now that I think about it, spell DC is 8+Prof+ability mod, while passive checks are "10 + all the modifiers that normally apply to the check", so it sems even worse than what you say.

Unless there's some reason to apply disadvantage to the check (synergy with some fog/mist/darkness effect), it looks like a character with proficiency in Perception will be quite hard to surprise this way.

On the flip side, characters with low(ered) perception may not be able to detect them and be unsure where to walk safely even after they stepped on the first spike

 

[PauloR]

I'm not sure if it's raw, but they way I've always seen it being ruled is that once you first entered the area (and take your first 2d4 damage) the DM tells the player that the area is dangerous and asks if the PC (or decides if it's a monster) wants to keep moving through there. They don't know exactly where the "dangerous area" is, but can step back to avoid the damage and figure out a way to traverse the area safely - maybe flying over it, going around it, in this version, make a Perception check- or even swapping to.ranged attacks or something else.

Back to the original problem, maybe it's better to say that, unless the PC/monster see the spell being cast (and know what it does), he doesn't get to use passive perception and must make and active check. Or, alternatively, if your passive Perception is 10 higher than the spell DC, you see the dangerous area no checks required.

 

[lichmaster]

They don't know exactly where the "dangerous area" is, but can step back to avoid the damage and figure out a way to traverse the area safely - maybe flying over it, going around it,

To me going backwards or over it seem the only possible safe options. Going around it presumes the creature can see the spikes

 

[PauloR]

If you are walking on the edge of it yes. But if I know there is a hazard and I don't know how big but still need to traverse it, I would try to go around it by a wide margin, say 30 ft and then try again, if I still take damage, maybe another 15. It's trial and error if you don't know where the danger zone is, but if the monster is not stupid, it won't be trapped on the other side of the hazard wondering what to do, specially if there are enemies on the other side attacking back.