Spirit Knight, class based on Jedi!

[Asmor]

Ok, I think I've come up with something for spirit weapons (lightsabers) that I like, and I've updated the page to reflect it. To whit:

Level 1: Spirit Weapon
Level 3: Spirit Weapon +1
Level 5: Spirit Weapon Enhancement
Level 8: Improved Spirit Weapon
Level 12: Superior Spirit Weapon
Level 16: Greater Spirit Weapon
Level 20: Perfect Spirit Weapon

Basically, it costs 2 SP to maintain your spirit weapon, spirit weapon can be any melee weapon, but usually the one associated with your god or a sword, you can spend SP to add enhancements to it each round, and at higher levels the weapon generates SP on its own that can be used for enhancements, which do not count against your limit.

EDIT: D'oh. I forgot to do the stuff about crafting the spirit weapon. I'm a little burnt out on this right now, though, I'll try to get to it later tonight.

 

[Kapalen]

Instead of a spirit spot check to notice others, a knowledge spirit would make more sense to me as it could sense the force in other people and do other cool stuff. You should probably cap the dodge bonus from SP. The enhancements is the coolest mechanic ever. I would show the cool jedi jump by giving spring attack as a bonus feat, but that's me. If a spirit knight is fighting a spirit knight they should get a bonus to their will saves to avoid the effects of the spirit powers. You should have an ex-knight thing like monks and paladins where when they start multiclassing they can't gain any more spirit levels. The deflect arrows thing sounded neat, or possibly let them use telekenisis defensivly to give ranged attacks a 50% miss chance. Oh yeah, as for the detecting other SKs an ability where they can supress their powers (Like Dooku and Palpatine) at the cost of like 1 SP an hour.

 

[Afrodyte]

Asmor,

I really like the concept of this class, but there is something about it that just seems a bit . . . off. Perhaps it has something to do with its limited portability. To use this class, you pretty much have to adopt your magic system. Nothing wrong with your magic system, but it might be a bit too much for GMs who just want a Jedi-esque class to plug into their campaigns. Might I suggest that you provide a variant that is more easily portable into D&D?

Conceptually, I think I sort of get where you're coming from, but having the flavor text would be a good idea. Like I said, I adore the concept of mystical warriors, but having a firm vision of how you conceive of that can go a long way toward being able to form a solid opinion of the class. For instance, I think that modeling this class after the paladin would have been better given how the paladin seems to click better. Of course, instead of class abilities that makes spirit knights into crusaders, you have class abilities that accentuate their mystical power. You could even mix some paladin abilities with some monk abilities, seeing that the Jedi seem very much like both.

As for the signature weapon of the spirit knight, lightsabers seem most like finessable bastard swords. However, one may consider some serious requirements in order to wield such a powerful weapon, or at least have some drawbacks. Perhaps a code of conduct that forbids them from wielding certain weapons. Just a thought.

 

[Sigurd]

I like the concept but I think you would gain so much in the form of game balance and cohesion if you could recast it as a Psionic Discipline. Its not too far a stretch to think of the jedi as psionic and you would have a whole slice of the game already adapted for you.

I don't even play psionics and I might include this char class.

As a DM the psionic rules would allow me to see that it was balanced against the other psionic character classes.


Sigurd

 

[Asmor]

I like the concept but I think you would gain so much in the form of game balance and cohesion if you could recast it as a Psionic Discipline. Its not too far a stretch to think of the jedi as psionic and you would have a whole slice of the game already adapted for you.

I don't even play psionics and I might include this char class.

As a DM the psionic rules would allow me to see that it was balanced against the other psionic character classes.


Sigurd

You are, of course, entirely correct. The only thing that's really preventing this from being a psionic class is that I call it a spirit knight. Call it a psionic knight, change the SP to PP, and there ya go.

I'm really not too familiar with the rules for psionics, though. I know the basics, but the only psionic class that ever really interested me was the soul knife, which I consulted in making the spirit weapon. The soul knife doesn't really have much to do with psionics, though, aside from the fact that it's called a psionic class (much like this one).

 

[Asmor]

Asmor,

I really like the concept of this class, but there is something about it that just seems a bit . . . off. Perhaps it has something to do with its limited portability. To use this class, you pretty much have to adopt your magic system. Nothing wrong with your magic system, but it might be a bit too much for GMs who just want a Jedi-esque class to plug into their campaigns. Might I suggest that you provide a variant that is more easily portable into D&D?

I really don't understand the issue here... This class uses an unusual method for gaining SP, granted, but it's all based on normal D&D rules... base score plus ability bonus.

Conceptually, I think I sort of get where you're coming from, but having the flavor text would be a good idea. Like I said, I adore the concept of mystical warriors, but having a firm vision of how you conceive of that can go a long way toward being able to form a solid opinion of the class. For instance, I think that modeling this class after the paladin would have been better given how the paladin seems to click better. Of course, instead of class abilities that makes spirit knights into crusaders, you have class abilities that accentuate their mystical power. You could even mix some paladin abilities with some monk abilities, seeing that the Jedi seem very much like both.

The monk and ranger would both make good sources to base this class; the paladin would not. Paladins have a great amount of faith, but that's the only similarity. The paladin is a tough, armored fighter that stands there and dishes out the pain. This doesn't really match Jedi very well, as they are acrobatic and lightly armored, relying on their wit and abilities to keep them alive.

As for the signature weapon of the spirit knight, lightsabers seem most like finessable bastard swords. However, one may consider some serious requirements in order to wield such a powerful weapon, or at least have some drawbacks. Perhaps a code of conduct that forbids them from wielding certain weapons. Just a thought.

It would not be at all difficult to divorce the rules for the spirit weapon from the class. They were quite literally tacked on at the end, and can be ignored pain-free in lieu of whatever situation you might prefer.

 

[Afrodyte]

I really don't understand the issue here... This class uses an unusual method for gaining SP, granted, but it's all based on normal D&D rules... base score plus ability bonus.

That's all well and good, but using SP is a bit out of the normal way that D&D handles class abilities. I'm not a particular fan of the Vancian system, but you are adding additional rules to how the abilities of the spirit knight work. None of the PHB classes use points to manage the resources of their class abilities. The closest thing to what you have are the X/day abilities found in some of the PHB classes.

Like I said, there is nothing that I personally have against the idea. Iron Heroes uses a similar idea, but IH is a variant PHB, not something you would be using alongside the PHB.

The monk and ranger would both make good sources to base this class; the paladin would not. Paladins have a great amount of faith, but that's the only similarity. The paladin is a tough, armored fighter that stands there and dishes out the pain. This doesn't really match Jedi very well, as they are acrobatic and lightly armored, relying on their wit and abilities to keep them alive.

I wasn't speaking strictly of their martial style and abilities (which the paladin does not slouch at). I was talking more about a warrior whose abilities are used in service to a code. A warrior whose strengths comes as much from insight and faith as they do from physical fitness. Not to mention, it's easy enough to reword some of the paladin's abilities in more of a Jedi light. For instance:

• Aura of good = Strength in the Force
• Detect evil at will: "The Dark Side I sense in you."
• Divine Grace = Jedi are especially tough, agile, and strong-willed by virtue of their connection to the Force.
• Aura of Courage = See above. If the Force is your ally, many things simply don't scare you anymore.
• Divine Health = How many Jedi do you think succumb to disease? Most of them are either killed or die of a ripe old age.
• Smite Evil = Drawing on the power of the Force during a battle with a single powerful foe. Of course, that's neither here nor there since many of the paladin's spells can do the same.
• Spells: Some of the paladin's spells seem a mite out of place for the Jedi, but many of them are right on. Aside from the spells dealing with healing or that are more like wizardry, the vast majority of the paladin's spells are applicable to the Jedi. Especially those that enhance combat prowess. You could, of course, replace healing abilities with things that are a bit more in keeping with Star Wars. For instance, replacing cure light wounds with jump.

The only thing that doesn't fit so far are Lay on Hands, Turn Undead, Special Mount, and Remove Disease. Of course, this can be replaced with more appropriate monk abilities. For instance, the monk's AC bonus, evasion, and improved evasion.

As far as the paladin's code, look at the Jedi code.

Not to mention, the Jedi Order itself is based upon millennia-old traditions meant not only for personal spiritual progress, but for maintaining peace and order in the galaxy. In terms of alignment, the order itself is pretty restrictive. Only Lawful Good and Neutral Good characters would be able to tolerate the life of a Jedi. Besides the commitment to peace and justice in the galaxy, there is one's own spiritual progress to tend to. The Jedi Order relies heavily on tradition, discipline, and dogma to fulfill these ideals.

As far as the paladin who function as a meat shield, that's more dependent upon the choices of the player than anything else. There's nothing preventing the paladin from focusing on the Dodge, Combat Expertise, and Weapon Finesse trees. And there is also nothing preventing the paladin from having a decent enough Intelligence score to be able to take cross-class skills. As a matter of fact, you could easily design a paladin-based Jedi as a PrC that offers some of the more stylistic or tactical aspects as bonus feats or class abilities.

 

[Asmor]

You make a very convincing argument. Ultimately, though, I've come to rather like my take on the Jedi. What you're suggesting would require a complete retooling of the class, and I'm very fond of the mechanics I've employed in it.