Spiritual Weapon: how much can it see?

[stevelabny]

Ok, so I have a cleric in my party that likes to use Spirtual Weapon.
the spell description says that if not otherwise commanded, the weapon will continue to attack the previous target.
What if...?

1> The target leaves the casters sight, but is still within range of a spell?(either hiding behind something, or submerging itself) The spell specifies that the weapon has to stay in the cleric's sight, but in both of these cases, the weapon could possibly still be in sight, while the target isnt.

2> The target becomes invisible? Can the weapon still attack with regular miss chances due to invisibility?

3> anything else I'm missing the could lead to the caster/weapon not knowing where the target is.

 

[shilsen]

What if...?

1> The target leaves the casters sight, but is still within range of a spell?(either hiding behind something, or submerging itself) The spell specifies that the weapon has to stay in the cleric's sight, but in both of these cases, the weapon could possibly still be in sight, while the target isnt.

SW keeps attacking. As you say, the spell specifies that the weapon (not the target) has to stay in the cleric's sight.

2> The target becomes invisible? Can the weapon still attack with regular miss chances due to invisibility?

Yes. Nothing in the spell description indicates a problem there.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

Hey, but what if the cleric drinks a potion of See Invisibility? Would the SW no longer have a miss chance against the invisible bad guy? And if so, would it still not have a miss chance even after the invisible bad guy runs behind a building and the cleric can't see him anymore?


My gut tells me that SW should get concealment penalties applied based on what the caster can see; if the designated opponent goes invisible and the caster can't see him anymore, he gets full concealment (50% miss chance) from the SW, too. Likewise if the bad guy runs behind a building, again getting full concealment from the caster. But as long as the opponent remains within the range of the spell and the cleric continues to designate him as a target, the SW sticks with him.

I'm just curious about whether there's another way to look at it, I guess.

--
a simple man for simple times
ryan

 

[stevelabny]

well, the spell does specify that the weapon doesnt get any of your bonuses, so i would include "see invisible" with that also.

but my problem is when the invisible foe moves. how does the sword know where to go? if the sword can see invisible, that greatly increases the power of the spell.

 

[shilsen]

well, the spell does specify that the weapon doesnt get any of your bonuses, so i would include "see invisible" with that also.

but my problem is when the invisible foe moves. how does the sword know where to go? if the sword can see invisible, that greatly increases the power of the spell.

By the RAW, I believe the spell would follow the invisible enemy even when he moves. As for how the spell knows, it's a kind of magic

 

[Wolffenjugend]

No way would I allow the spell to follow an invisible guy around. That allows a 2nd-lvl divine spell to foil invisibility for EVERYONE involved in the battle: "Look guys! Follow the hammer!"

If the opponent goes invisible, I'd have the weapon continue attacking the space in question unless redirected by the caster.

 

[smetzger]

Here is a couple more questions on Spiritual Weapon.

1) If a creature other than the one the Spiritual Weapon is attacking does something to provoke an AoO doe the 'weapon' get to take one?

I believe No, because it canot freely switch targets.

2) If the creature the weapon is attacking does something to provoke an AoO does the weapon get to take one?

I believe the answer is Yes.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

No way would I allow the spell to follow an invisible guy around. That allows a 2nd-lvl divine spell to foil invisibility for EVERYONE involved in the battle: "Look guys! Follow the hammer!"

I don't know why that should be a problem at all. Three words for you:

Glitterdust. Faerie Fire.
(And then I'll add three extra words to make the last 2 words of that hurt even more: 1st level spell.)

And those actually give EVERYONE involved in the battle a chance to beat up the invisible guy without even getting a 50% miss chance for total concealment! Clearly, the rules don't have a philosophical problem with letting people get around invisibility with spells of equal or lower level. There are even rules for throwing flour on 'em, when it comes right down to it, and it doesn't get more mundane than that.


...Now, I wouldn't let a cleric target a Spiritual Weapon on an invisible opponent he couldn't actually see at the time of casting. But, y'know, if he can see the guy and cast Spiritual Weapon, and the guy doesn't go where the Weapon can't follow, I say let the weapon keep on following him. I'm feeling more convinced that I'd base whether the weapon had to roll a miss chance entirely on whether the caster can still see the target, too: if he can, no miss chance. If he can't, it's 50/50 and good luck to him.

--
it almost makes a horn of fog look more useful

 

[shilsen]

Here is a couple more questions on Spiritual Weapon.

1) If a creature other than the one the Spiritual Weapon is attacking does something to provoke an AoO doe the 'weapon' get to take one?

I believe No, because it canot freely switch targets.

2) If the creature the weapon is attacking does something to provoke an AoO does the weapon get to take one?

I believe the answer is Yes.

I'd say:

1) No

2) No (probably). The spiritual weapon does not actually threaten an area, so I would say no AoO. But ruling the other way seems reasonable too.

 

[Wolffenjugend]

Well, first of all, let's compare apples to apples. Faerie Fire may be a 1st-lvl spell, but it's also a DRUID spell - and many parties (if not most) don't have a druid in them. Glitterdust is 2nd-lvl and arcane. Same with See Invisibility.

The rules may not say a 1st-lvl spell can be used to trump a 2nd-lvl spell, but they do say when making new spells that a spell should not duplicate a spell already in existence (i.e. using Spiritual Weapon as a de facto Faerie Fire or Glitterdust spell).

IMO, Spiritual Weapon would hang motionless until redirected if its target went invisible and moved out of its original square. Maybe you just see things differently.