Splitting Skills!

Corlon

First Post
Almost always when I play a rogue (which is practically 3/4 of my characters) I max out 8 + Int + race bonus (if any) skills, and don't get anything else. On occasion I'll split two like spot and listen or jump and climb, but as I just started a new campaign, I realized a few situations where it would be cool (even if not advantageous) to have other skills.

so, the point:

I've been looking through the players handbook for DCs on most things, and trying to think of how many ranks should be put into skills to make them usually all around useful.

Such as: unless you're trying to tie up a really good escape artist, the ability to get 15 on a use rope check is usually all the need (dc 10 tie a firm knot, dc 15: tie a special not, a rope around oneself one-handed, splice two ropes together)

Even things like hide and move silently (even though they're wonderful to max out) for most sneaking, not a whole lot of people invest a lot of ranks in seeing and hearing.

What do you guys think would be a good amount of ranks for the skills a rogue gets (yes, all of them :D )
 

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I will give it a try. I usally do not play rogues so some of my advice may be a bit off. Also your DM may have NCP ranks convetions which make certian skill ranks more useful so this would vary from game to game. These are the ranks that look useful to me based on the PHB.

Skill Name (Ability Mod) [Synergy] suggested ranks
#-# means a range in which the skill is usefull higher (or lower) ranks are not IMO useful
#/# means that either one should stay in the range before the / or stay in the range after in between ranks are not useful
Note: high ability mods will reduce the number of ranks needed in some skills

Appraise (Int) 0-15/max
Balance (Dex) 0-10/max
Bluff (Cha) [5] 5-max
Climb (Str) 0-15/max
Craft (Int) varies
Decipher Script (Int) [5] 0/10-max
Diplomacy (Cha) 0-max
Disable Device (Int) 0/max
Disguise (Cha) 0-max
Escape Artist (Dex) [5] 10-max
Forgery (Int) 0-max
Gather Information (Cha) 0-max
Hide (Dex) 0-max
Intimidate (Cha) 0/max
Jump (Str) [5] 5-max
Knowledge (local) (Int) [5] 5-max
Listen (Wis) 0-max
Move Silently (Dex) 0-max
Open Lock (Dex) 0/max
Perform (Cha) 0-max
Profession (Wis) varies usally 0/1-max
Search (Int) 0/max
Sense Motive (Wis) [5] 5-max
Sleight of Hand (Dex) 1-10/max
Spot (Wis) 0-max
Swim (Str) 0-5/20
Tumble (Dex) [5] 5-15/max
Use Magic Device (Cha) 0/max
Use Rope (Dex) [5] 0-5/max
 

Honestly what kind of Rogue are you playing?

Most of mine end up as Con-men as such Bluff, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Disguise, Diplomacy, Forgery, various Crafts, a few Professions, Deciher Script, Gather Info, Appraise, UMD, Spot, Search all become imperitive to greater or lesser degrees.

Tumble is often thrown in, as is Perform, possibely Disable Device (if you need a reason for the group to keep you around :) )
 

That's an interesting chart--my own take on this is:

Appraise (Int) 0-15/max

One rank is very useful here since it dramatically improves the results even of failures. You can, get more out of it if you want to.

Balance (Dex) 0-10/max

Five ranks gives you a synergy bonus with tumble, other than that, though, I'd leave this skill alone unless you have a very definite use for it.

Bluff (Cha) [5] 5-max

Five ranks gives a lot of synergy. You can't go wrong maxing it out though--it just depends how good you want to be at bluffing.

Climb (Str) 0-15/max

A few ranks of climb will get you up rough natural surfaces and knotted ropes from your grappling hook. If you want to get more, you can get really good at it. However, it's easy to substitute for climb (fly, spider climb, levitation, grappling hooks, climbing gear, etc) so if you're not a second story man, you can get by without too much.

Craft (Int) varies
Decipher Script (Int) [5] 0/10-max

If you've got a good int, one rank lets you try and sometimes you'll get lucky. Generally, I'd leave this for the guys with comprehend languages though.

Diplomacy (Cha) 0-max

Diplomacy is always useful--even if you don't invest too much in it.

Disable Device (Int) 0/max

Max depends upon your int and equipment as well as your DM. IMO, +24 is all you're likely to need (disarm a 9th level spell trap). However, before then, you should max it out unless your use for it is Aid Other on your party's other rogue.

Disguise (Cha) 0-max

Multiclass rogues and rogues with hats of disguise might well get some good use out of five or ten ranks here. However, relying on magic won't always work--especially as you increase in levels. Split it if you want but know what you can and can't accomplish (a split rank rogue might fool the orcs into believing that you're just one of the evil overlord's soldiers but it'll take a maxed ranks rogue to fool the enemy into believing that you're really their general returned early from patrol).

Escape Artist (Dex) [5] 10-max

If you're not using this to get out of grapples (which will require maxed ranks), the relevant DCs are 30 (manacles), 35 (masterwork manacles), and the opponent's use rope check.

Forgery (Int) 0-max

Actually, I think the rules are rather ridiculously easy for forgeries. If you are forging a type of document you're very familiar with and the handwriting isn't specific, you get a +10 bonus to the check. And it's opposed by the other guy's forgery skill (which generally translates into his int bonus). If you want to fool people who invest ranks in forgery then you'll need to max it. If you want to fool the little people with seemingly innocuous, commonplace documents, it's easy.

Gather Information (Cha) 0-max

Again, it depends on what you want to find. The highest DC the PH lists is 25.

Hide (Dex) 0-max

IMO, this is a skill to max. It's hard to be stealthy and you never know what kind of spot your foe has; I wouldn't be comfortable until I had at least a bonus ten points higher than the expected spot of the kind of people I wanted to sneak by.

Intimidate (Cha) 0/max

It depends who you want to intimidate.

Jump (Str) [5] 5-max

5 ranks gives you the synergy bonus to tumble. Oh, you mean you want to actually jump?

Knowledge (local) (Int) [5] 5-max

I often put only a few ranks in this skill. It depends how specific your DM makes it (knowlege local: universal/nation/city/district/etc) and how often it comes up in play.

Listen (Wis) 0-max

Max it. You want to hear the assassins sneaking up on you--not just the people who don't max their move silently.

Move Silently (Dex) 0-max

See Hide.

Open Lock (Dex) 0/max

Actually, you can do a lot with just one rank. Masterwork tools, plus a good dex, plus take 20 will open up an average lock. If you have an ally or two to help you, you can get a good lock with only a few ranks. To normal open locks quickly and amazing locks at all, you'll need a lot of ranks but you can try spells (Knock, Shatter, etc) in those cases.

Perform (Cha) 0-max

To make a convincing disguise as a travelling performer, you'll need +5 or so. If you want to compete with the bards and get royal audiences, etc, you'll need a lot more.

Profession (Wis) varies usally 0/1-max
Search (Int) 0/max

You can't go wrong maxing search but you can rely upon potions of vision and lenses of detection if you want to get by with less.

Sense Motive (Wis) [5] 5-max

5 ranks gives you the synergy bonusses. If you want to catch good liars and sense every enchantment, you'll need to max it. If you're willing to rely upon risk minization schemes (I can't tell if you're lying, so I'll offer you something that you should be happy with if you're telling the truth and if you turn it down or make an excuse then you were lying and if you take me up on it, I'm not losing more than I'm willing to lose, etc) you can get by with less.

Sleight of Hand (Dex) 1-10/max
Spot (Wis) 0-max

Another one to max. You want to notice the Glooms or whatever other assassins are coming for you.

Swim (Str) 0-5/20

Just know what you can reliably swim through and plan accordingly.

Tumble (Dex) [5] 5-15/max

1 rank lets you attempt it (and you don't lose much for that). 5 ranks gives a good synergy bonus. If you want to auto-tumble, you'll probably have to max it since the DC goes up in different circumstances and if more than one person threatens you.

Use Magic Device (Cha) 0/max

Reading low levels scrolls and using wands can be done fairly easily if you don't need 100% success. If you want to really burn through consumables or fool Holy Avengers into thinking you're a paladin you'll need to max it out.

Use Rope (Dex) [5] 0-5/max

Decide what you want it for. If it's for tying up Harry Houdini, you'll need to max it out. If it's just to put a grappling hook on a 50 foot high ledge, you can get by with a lot less.
 

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