Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Ok ...
In my opinion ...
We need a 4 hour The Two Towers, in the extended version.
There are simply too many things going on in TTT, and a fuller treatment of many of them is needed.
In my opinion ...
If Arwen is shown leading the Host of Rivendell to Helm's Deep, and if she is shown fighting, the film will be more powerful, and the story will be strengthened and also make somewhat more sense.
If Elrond is shown going to Lothlorien to consult with Galadriel, the story will be strengthened and make more sense.
If Elrond is shown speaking with Arwen concerning her final decision (I would consider going to Helm's Deep a final decision) the story will be strengthened, and make more sense.
In my opinion ...
Any fighting carried out by Eowyn in the defense of the civilians hiding in the Glittering Caves (behind the Hornburg), and by anyone else who retreated there (as was the case in the book) would strengthen her character, and improve the story.
The arrival and aid of the Huorns and Ents at the Battle of Helm's Deep, if shown, would greatly strengthen and improve the story. ESPECIALLY considering the portrayal of Treebeard and the Ents in the Theatrical Version of TTT.
In my opinion, the addition of the above material - in the Extended TTT - would CRUCIALLY improve the film.
In my opinion, the deletion of the above scenes crucially weakened the film.
In my opinion ...
The alteration to Faramir's character, although perhaps necessary in a film, weakened Tolkien's story and used crucial time needed for other scenes.
I do honestly feel that Faramir's strength, in resisting the Ring, could have been portrayed, could have been shown (although I admit I do not know exactly how, on screen, but I am sure Peter Jackson of all people could have done it.)
Instead, the Crossroads and Minas Morgul should have been shown. After all, those were important milestones on the way to Torich Ungol. No need to show Shelob, but Minas Morgul would have been a worthy addition, no?
Whether the issuance of the Great Darkness, the Great Signal going off, and the onset of the Morgul Host, should have been shown in the TTT film or held off until the ROTK film, is a decision I am neutral on.
I feel the portrayal of Treebeard was great, until he proved himself an idiot.
Treebeard had good reason to be neutral, but he already knew of the destruction to his friends the trees ... and Treebeard was OLD (read: he was wise, and wise beings tend to make wise decisions, not stupid ones.)
The Onslaught of the Ents should not have been based on a whim (or, in this case, a trick of Pippin's, smart as that hobbit was) but rather upon something more solidly founded in thought.
In other words, scrap it, and in the extended version use Tolkien's story instead.
Just my opinion.
In my opinion ...
The coming of the elves of Lothlorien was great!
The coming of the elves of Rivendell, with Arwen at their head, would also be great ... but it wasn't there.
If there were large numbers of elves (from both hosts) who survived the battle, this should be shown.
And, if neither Lothlorien nor Rivendell sent their full forces, this should be shown, or hinted at (after all, Lothlorien would be assailed repeatedly within the next two weeks, and all the woods in it's fringe areas burned. A minor point here ...)
In my opinion ...
There is a need to show Frodo and the Ring fighting for control.
There is not a need for Frodo to face the Lord of the Nazgul at Osgiliath (although showing Osgiliath itself, like that, I thought was a great idea, and I would compliment Peter Jackson on that one!)
If you take the book at face value, not Sam, nor Frodo, nor Faramir, nor anyone else (except three very special and valiant beings under special circumstances) ever had the strength to stand against the Lord of the Nazgul in his full demonic strength ... everyone else had this tendency to RUN (which was wise) or HIDE (which was also wise) when he showed up.
Besides, if the Lord of the Nazgul knew the Ring was in Osgiliath, then it could not be with faraway Aragorn in Rohan, now could it?
Why not show the battle of wills in Morgul Vale, where Frodo turned away the mind of the Lord of the Nazgul as he sat at the head of the Morgul Host, instead? That was no small feat on Frodo's part! (had Legolas or Gimli of battle renown, or the valiant Aragorn, tried to pull that stunt in Imlad Morgul, they would have been very, very, very dead.) Frodo overcame the Ring AND the Lord of the Nazgul, with a little help from his cloak and the Phial of Galadriel.
Just my opinion. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker, but Tolkien was a great writer.
I am VERY GLAD Aragorn did not show the chauvinistic traits and say the stupid words that he said in ROTK (the Passing of the Grey Company) to Eowyn.
Cheers to Peter Jackson on that one. For that was my least favorite part in all the trilogy, that exchange.
Theoden and Eomer could be excused, since they were medieval folk in a medieval society. Aragorn could not be excused - in my opinion Tolkien briefly strayed and had Aragorn speak out of character, for Aragorn - by any medievalism. The Numenorians were more lofty than this, Aragorn was schooled by the elves, and Aragorn himself treated people (including women) as people, not as ... to use Eowyn's words ... wetnurses.
So yes, cheers to Peter Jackson on this. It is not political correctness (I think Eowyn would vomit at the term), but keeping true to the true character of Aragorn. Of course, others may disagree with me here ...
I must presume the Theatrical Version was made for public consumption, and certainly it has been heartily sampled, to the tune of 300 million dollars here in America alone.
I hope the extended version is more truly Tolkienish, though. A Tolkien Purist I am not, but in this case, and in my opinion, Tolkien did it better (except, as I have pointed out, concerning Aragorn's words with Eowyn. I think Peter Jackson did it better there.)
Now, assuming a fair number of folk disagree with the above and think my criticisms are unwarranted (If you disliked it, then perhaps you will have a chance to do it better! they might say ...) here are some compliments:
Gollum was truly spectacular.
Visually.
Verbally.
In the interpretation. In what was added to Tolkien's story, strengthened the character.
The interplay between Frodo and Gollum was spectacular, and it was amazing how this subtle and philosophical theme was compressed into the film.
The interplay between Sam and Gollum was spectacular as well.
The interplay between Frodo and Sam was great.
The interplay between Frodo and Faramir concerning Gollum was TRULY WELL DONE.
Treebeard was spectacular (except for his unwisdom which wasn't in the book, as I have said.)
The Ents were spectacular.
The Entish Assault on Isengard was jaw dropping.
The Battle of Helm's Deep was truly well done, and in my opinion very faithful to the book. Right down to the geography and exact construction of the Hornburg. (Heh, the blackpowder explosion and those gigantic ballistae with Uruk-Hai clinging to the great ladders were nice additions.)
The sortie by Aragorn and Gimli was grand. Talk about heroism! (Yeah, I know, Eomer was supposed to be involved ...)
The onslaught of Theoden was very good. He needed more riders with him, though (they had more survivors than THAT.)
I thought the Warg Rider battle was spectacular. I jumped in my seat as the two forces crashed together, and so did those with me.
I thought everything involving Arwen was well done. So well done, that it becomes necessary for Arwen's final decision to be shown (that is, her arrival at Helm's Deep, which as I previously said would GREATLY strengthen the story, in my opinion.)
I do not think Aragorn's near death (an addition to Tolkien's writing) was a waste of time. It was well done, and it contributed to a number of themes.
I LIKED Ugluk and Grishnakh, even if their parts were short. (Nothing like orc for dinner, and nothing like the mad cannibal chasing you into Fangorn Forest!)
Heh, I assume their parts will be lengthened in the extended version ... give us more of good ole Ugluk and Grishnakh! Uruk-Hai and Mordor Orc at their finest!
That scene in which Aragorn kicked the orc helmet and yelled will be a Classic. Especially since Viggo actually broke his toe kicking the helmet, and the yell was a real yell of pain. Viggo kept himself in control, and used the yell to lead in to a great bit of acting. Cheers to Viggo!
I thought Sauron, sitting (hanging?) up there at the top of Barad Dur was neat.
Far better than some unknown Something sitting in a room in the top of the Dark Tower!
Heh. He was most definitely THERE (he wasn't really there in the book), and he was MEAN looking, and you just knew he was gloating, angry, and a whole bunch of other appropriately Sauronic things all at once, up there. Cheers to Peter Jackson! (heh ... would YOU walk into Mordor, with THAT in plain sight, and you in plain sight of Him?!)
Give me as much of Galadriel as possible. Cate Blanchett is a great actress, and Peter Jackson's Galadriel is a strong character. (Someone really lovable, and really terrifying, both. Nevermind her omniscience, her body language and way of speaking (as acted by Cate Blanchett) are enough in themselves!)
Ummm ... I liked Eomer quite a lot. Too bad there is not more of him in the film. (I suppose that in the extended version he badmouths Galadriel, or at least I hope so. Thus Gimli can badmouth him, and we see why the near fatalities early in the TTT.)
Give me more of Eowyn. Her love for Aragorn was shown, and well portrayed. But give me more. She is someone I want to know all about.
If there is more to give, give me more of Gollum. Jar Jar Binks he is NOT. Gollum is Oscar material, in my opinion, and the more I see of this marvel of acting and CGI technology, the happier I will be.
(still under construction, since with TTT it is hard to know where to start and where to end. I think everyone might agree with that one, including Peter Jackson!)
In my opinion ...
We need a 4 hour The Two Towers, in the extended version.
There are simply too many things going on in TTT, and a fuller treatment of many of them is needed.
In my opinion ...
If Arwen is shown leading the Host of Rivendell to Helm's Deep, and if she is shown fighting, the film will be more powerful, and the story will be strengthened and also make somewhat more sense.
If Elrond is shown going to Lothlorien to consult with Galadriel, the story will be strengthened and make more sense.
If Elrond is shown speaking with Arwen concerning her final decision (I would consider going to Helm's Deep a final decision) the story will be strengthened, and make more sense.
In my opinion ...
Any fighting carried out by Eowyn in the defense of the civilians hiding in the Glittering Caves (behind the Hornburg), and by anyone else who retreated there (as was the case in the book) would strengthen her character, and improve the story.
The arrival and aid of the Huorns and Ents at the Battle of Helm's Deep, if shown, would greatly strengthen and improve the story. ESPECIALLY considering the portrayal of Treebeard and the Ents in the Theatrical Version of TTT.
In my opinion, the addition of the above material - in the Extended TTT - would CRUCIALLY improve the film.
In my opinion, the deletion of the above scenes crucially weakened the film.
In my opinion ...
The alteration to Faramir's character, although perhaps necessary in a film, weakened Tolkien's story and used crucial time needed for other scenes.
I do honestly feel that Faramir's strength, in resisting the Ring, could have been portrayed, could have been shown (although I admit I do not know exactly how, on screen, but I am sure Peter Jackson of all people could have done it.)
Instead, the Crossroads and Minas Morgul should have been shown. After all, those were important milestones on the way to Torich Ungol. No need to show Shelob, but Minas Morgul would have been a worthy addition, no?
Whether the issuance of the Great Darkness, the Great Signal going off, and the onset of the Morgul Host, should have been shown in the TTT film or held off until the ROTK film, is a decision I am neutral on.
I feel the portrayal of Treebeard was great, until he proved himself an idiot.
Treebeard had good reason to be neutral, but he already knew of the destruction to his friends the trees ... and Treebeard was OLD (read: he was wise, and wise beings tend to make wise decisions, not stupid ones.)
The Onslaught of the Ents should not have been based on a whim (or, in this case, a trick of Pippin's, smart as that hobbit was) but rather upon something more solidly founded in thought.
In other words, scrap it, and in the extended version use Tolkien's story instead.
Just my opinion.
In my opinion ...
The coming of the elves of Lothlorien was great!
The coming of the elves of Rivendell, with Arwen at their head, would also be great ... but it wasn't there.
If there were large numbers of elves (from both hosts) who survived the battle, this should be shown.
And, if neither Lothlorien nor Rivendell sent their full forces, this should be shown, or hinted at (after all, Lothlorien would be assailed repeatedly within the next two weeks, and all the woods in it's fringe areas burned. A minor point here ...)
In my opinion ...
There is a need to show Frodo and the Ring fighting for control.
There is not a need for Frodo to face the Lord of the Nazgul at Osgiliath (although showing Osgiliath itself, like that, I thought was a great idea, and I would compliment Peter Jackson on that one!)
If you take the book at face value, not Sam, nor Frodo, nor Faramir, nor anyone else (except three very special and valiant beings under special circumstances) ever had the strength to stand against the Lord of the Nazgul in his full demonic strength ... everyone else had this tendency to RUN (which was wise) or HIDE (which was also wise) when he showed up.
Besides, if the Lord of the Nazgul knew the Ring was in Osgiliath, then it could not be with faraway Aragorn in Rohan, now could it?
Why not show the battle of wills in Morgul Vale, where Frodo turned away the mind of the Lord of the Nazgul as he sat at the head of the Morgul Host, instead? That was no small feat on Frodo's part! (had Legolas or Gimli of battle renown, or the valiant Aragorn, tried to pull that stunt in Imlad Morgul, they would have been very, very, very dead.) Frodo overcame the Ring AND the Lord of the Nazgul, with a little help from his cloak and the Phial of Galadriel.
Just my opinion. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker, but Tolkien was a great writer.
I am VERY GLAD Aragorn did not show the chauvinistic traits and say the stupid words that he said in ROTK (the Passing of the Grey Company) to Eowyn.
Cheers to Peter Jackson on that one. For that was my least favorite part in all the trilogy, that exchange.
Theoden and Eomer could be excused, since they were medieval folk in a medieval society. Aragorn could not be excused - in my opinion Tolkien briefly strayed and had Aragorn speak out of character, for Aragorn - by any medievalism. The Numenorians were more lofty than this, Aragorn was schooled by the elves, and Aragorn himself treated people (including women) as people, not as ... to use Eowyn's words ... wetnurses.
So yes, cheers to Peter Jackson on this. It is not political correctness (I think Eowyn would vomit at the term), but keeping true to the true character of Aragorn. Of course, others may disagree with me here ...
I must presume the Theatrical Version was made for public consumption, and certainly it has been heartily sampled, to the tune of 300 million dollars here in America alone.
I hope the extended version is more truly Tolkienish, though. A Tolkien Purist I am not, but in this case, and in my opinion, Tolkien did it better (except, as I have pointed out, concerning Aragorn's words with Eowyn. I think Peter Jackson did it better there.)
Now, assuming a fair number of folk disagree with the above and think my criticisms are unwarranted (If you disliked it, then perhaps you will have a chance to do it better! they might say ...) here are some compliments:
Gollum was truly spectacular.
Visually.
Verbally.
In the interpretation. In what was added to Tolkien's story, strengthened the character.
The interplay between Frodo and Gollum was spectacular, and it was amazing how this subtle and philosophical theme was compressed into the film.
The interplay between Sam and Gollum was spectacular as well.
The interplay between Frodo and Sam was great.
The interplay between Frodo and Faramir concerning Gollum was TRULY WELL DONE.
Treebeard was spectacular (except for his unwisdom which wasn't in the book, as I have said.)
The Ents were spectacular.
The Entish Assault on Isengard was jaw dropping.
The Battle of Helm's Deep was truly well done, and in my opinion very faithful to the book. Right down to the geography and exact construction of the Hornburg. (Heh, the blackpowder explosion and those gigantic ballistae with Uruk-Hai clinging to the great ladders were nice additions.)
The sortie by Aragorn and Gimli was grand. Talk about heroism! (Yeah, I know, Eomer was supposed to be involved ...)
The onslaught of Theoden was very good. He needed more riders with him, though (they had more survivors than THAT.)
I thought the Warg Rider battle was spectacular. I jumped in my seat as the two forces crashed together, and so did those with me.
I thought everything involving Arwen was well done. So well done, that it becomes necessary for Arwen's final decision to be shown (that is, her arrival at Helm's Deep, which as I previously said would GREATLY strengthen the story, in my opinion.)
I do not think Aragorn's near death (an addition to Tolkien's writing) was a waste of time. It was well done, and it contributed to a number of themes.
I LIKED Ugluk and Grishnakh, even if their parts were short. (Nothing like orc for dinner, and nothing like the mad cannibal chasing you into Fangorn Forest!)
Heh, I assume their parts will be lengthened in the extended version ... give us more of good ole Ugluk and Grishnakh! Uruk-Hai and Mordor Orc at their finest!

That scene in which Aragorn kicked the orc helmet and yelled will be a Classic. Especially since Viggo actually broke his toe kicking the helmet, and the yell was a real yell of pain. Viggo kept himself in control, and used the yell to lead in to a great bit of acting. Cheers to Viggo!
I thought Sauron, sitting (hanging?) up there at the top of Barad Dur was neat.
Far better than some unknown Something sitting in a room in the top of the Dark Tower!
Heh. He was most definitely THERE (he wasn't really there in the book), and he was MEAN looking, and you just knew he was gloating, angry, and a whole bunch of other appropriately Sauronic things all at once, up there. Cheers to Peter Jackson! (heh ... would YOU walk into Mordor, with THAT in plain sight, and you in plain sight of Him?!)
Give me as much of Galadriel as possible. Cate Blanchett is a great actress, and Peter Jackson's Galadriel is a strong character. (Someone really lovable, and really terrifying, both. Nevermind her omniscience, her body language and way of speaking (as acted by Cate Blanchett) are enough in themselves!)
Ummm ... I liked Eomer quite a lot. Too bad there is not more of him in the film. (I suppose that in the extended version he badmouths Galadriel, or at least I hope so. Thus Gimli can badmouth him, and we see why the near fatalities early in the TTT.)
Give me more of Eowyn. Her love for Aragorn was shown, and well portrayed. But give me more. She is someone I want to know all about.
If there is more to give, give me more of Gollum. Jar Jar Binks he is NOT. Gollum is Oscar material, in my opinion, and the more I see of this marvel of acting and CGI technology, the happier I will be.
(still under construction, since with TTT it is hard to know where to start and where to end. I think everyone might agree with that one, including Peter Jackson!)
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