SPOILER WARNING: A thread about the Harry Potter books

[billd91]

There are some obvious, and big, examples. Why is Harry protected from Voldemort? Because his mother loved him and was willing to die for him. Hmmmm. And, when the Death Eaters were active, Harry was the only child so loved by his parents? Seems more like an explaination that left Harry vulnerable was needed, but certainly not a good one. (I believe I mentioned that before.)

Then again, and this argument applies to the closing points of your posting as well, we don't really have a lot of evidence that Voldemort and the Death Eaters were targeting kids specifically. Plus, we don't yet know everything that happened when Lilly was murdered. Did she start a spell on Harry that would be finished with her own sacrifice? We know that the Potters were close to Dumbledore, they knew about the prophecy and that Voldemort was gunning for them and Harry in particular, might Dumbledore have given them the skinny on some magic and other power that Dumbledore has said a few times throguhout the series Voldemort undervalues?

Why is Harry sent to the Dursleys? At this point, let it be remembered, He Who Must Not Be Named is dead. Sure, he has servants, but they are being rounded up. So the most powerful wizards in Britain decide that, rather than protect Harry themselves, they'll stick him in bondage with the most abusive family they can find. Of course, they watch over him, so they know the family is abusive, right?

May I also point out that the abusive family is also a staple in various forms of juvenile literature ranging from fairy tales to coming-of-age stories. Nothing at all wrong with playing within the genre.

 

[sniffles]

Dumbledore is not all knowing or all clever, by any means. He has made terrible, drastic mistakes. Some of his mistakes are caused by his ethical stance, such as allowing Tom Riddle to enter Hogwarts.
He did not figure out Voldemort could return through Quirrel. Harry, Hermione, and Ron beat him to it.
He did not figure out the Chamber of Secrets situation.
He could not save Sirius Black or Buckbeak. Harry and Hermione had to do that.
He did not figure out the Tri-Wizards Cup was a portkey trap, or that Wormtail had infiltrated his school.
In the end, Draco Malfoy outwitted Dumbledore. He found a way through all the defenses set up by Dumbledore (and all the others) through the items and the Room of Requirement ((not bad, Draco ...))

Dumbledore is certainly not all-knowing, or perfect. I think the expectation that he is Harry's expectation. Part of the maturing process of the characters is their discovery that adults make mistakes too.

Part of the reason Dumbledore does not figure out all these things before the kids do is that the kids are the heroes of the story, so it would undermine that to have someone else do all the work. But realistically, Dumbledore is the head of a big school and one of the most important and powerful wizards in the wizarding world. He has spent a lot of his time trying to convince the Ministry of Magic that the Death-Eaters are still a threat, and in Half-Blood Prince he's quite busy trying to find Voldemort's Horcrux. He's also just one elderly man. He simply doesn't have the time or energy to be on top of every detail.

And I have to point out that indirectly it was Dumbledore who saved Sirius Black and Buckbeak. I doubt it would have occurred to Hermione to use the Time-Turner for that purpose without Dumbledore's intervention.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Then again, and this argument applies to the closing points of your posting as well, we don't really have a lot of evidence that Voldemort and the Death Eaters were targeting kids specifically. Plus, we don't yet know everything that happened when Lilly was murdered. Did she start a spell on Harry that would be finished with her own sacrifice? We know that the Potters were close to Dumbledore, they knew about the prophecy and that Voldemort was gunning for them and Harry in particular, might Dumbledore have given them the skinny on some magic and other power that Dumbledore has said a few times throguhout the series Voldemort undervalues?

If you find the books to be internally self-consistent, then so be it. I hope you will understand, though, that they do not even remotely seem so to me.

This isn't to say that you can't play "Maybe it's because of this....Maybe it's because of that...." games with the material. And those games can be fun; I enjoy guessing at what the underlying reality of the Star Trek and Doctor Who universes must be. But then, no one ever tried to claim that Star Trek or Doctor Who was all figured out from the beginning either -- and if they did, they'd also have to explain why there are continuity gaps one could drive a truck through before I'd believe them.


RC

 

[billd91]

This isn't to say that you can't play "Maybe it's because of this....Maybe it's because of that...." games with the material. And those games can be fun; I enjoy guessing at what the underlying reality of the Star Trek and Doctor Who universes must be. But then, no one ever tried to claim that Star Trek or Doctor Who was all figured out from the beginning either -- and if they did, they'd also have to explain why there are continuity gaps one could drive a truck through before I'd believe them.

Of course with both of those, you couldn't really figure things out from the beginning. With the original Star Trek series, writing asignments for episodes were largely bid out at one time and there wasn't a lot of coordination between writers. That was the way series were often produced in the 1960s. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dr. Who series worked under similar arrangements.

 

[Raven Crowking]

True. There's no shame in not having a complete series worked out from the first book, especially when you don't yet know what a hit that book will be. I am just...shall we say, skeptical?...of the claim that the HP series was worked out in that manner.


RC

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I have to concur with you, Sniffles.
As for McGonagall, she is certainly by-the-book.

Here's one that piqued me: When Harry used Snape's spell on Draco in The Half Blood Prince, Snape had him.
I mean, he *had* him. He had him red handed, literally. Harry had just used a Dark Spell on a fellow student, a sure fire reason for Expulsion.
Snape did not get his book back, because Harry hid it, but he still had the evidence to have Harry expelled.

Why didn't Snape pounce, after all those years of trying?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Here's one that piqued me: When Harry used Snape's spell on Draco in The Half Blood Prince, Snape had him.
I mean, he *had* him. He had him red handed, literally. Harry had just used a Dark Spell on a fellow student, a sure fire reason for Expulsion.
Snape did not get his book back, because Harry hid it, but he still had the evidence to have Harry expelled.

Why didn't Snape pounce, after all those years of trying?

Could it be that Snape isn't really a bad guy and that he is going undercover in a plan concocted by Dumbledore?

 

[The Forsaken One]

I see hermi and harry as Sakura and Naturo from the Naruto animated series -.-.

One is smarter and has much much more control over het potential and power while the others "personal resevoir" of magical energy/chakra/Power points/whatever is much and I mean MUCH MUCH bigger. That compared with a natural talent for magic results as stated before in a novice somtimes doing magic stuff that rivals or even exeeds the powers of the most veteran wizards.

The problem is with naruto and harry, they can hardly call upon it at will. They can only really access it from some innate point as from instinct when for example they are under a heavy emotional state as anger or grief.

Good example is the Harry vs voldemort fight where he really lays down the law by accessing his inner "resevoir" and reveals his true potential and whipes the floor with voldemort. What he really needs is a) how to control that power and b) how to readily access it.

I think that is what people ment with "has more raw power".

 

[Tiberius]

Here's one that piqued me: When Harry used Snape's spell on Draco in The Half Blood Prince, Snape had him.
I mean, he *had* him. He had him red handed, literally. Harry had just used a Dark Spell on a fellow student, a sure fire reason for Expulsion.
Snape did not get his book back, because Harry hid it, but he still had the evidence to have Harry expelled.

Why didn't Snape pounce, after all those years of trying?

I suspect that even if he had tried, he wouldn't get very far. Harry was defending himself from an Unforgivable Curse, after all. In fact, he probably did Malfoy a favor by saving him from a one-way trip to Azkaban.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

I have to concur with you, Sniffles.
As for McGonagall, she is certainly by-the-book.

Here's one that piqued me: When Harry used Snape's spell on Draco in The Half Blood Prince, Snape had him.
I mean, he *had* him. He had him red handed, literally. Harry had just used a Dark Spell on a fellow student, a sure fire reason for Expulsion.
Snape did not get his book back, because Harry hid it, but he still had the evidence to have Harry expelled.

Why didn't Snape pounce, after all those years of trying?

It'd be interesting to see if Harry can stand up to Snape. After all the mind control lessons he'd had from Snape and failing miserably. It'll probably take an extreme condition for Harry to be able to block his mind, like he did with the Patronus.