Spooney review 4e

[ProfessorCirno]

Sigh, one last time.

Can anyone point to anywhere I said bias? Or anyone else, other than Professor C?

I know you were bowing out but...hey, you asked ;p

I start a thread with a comic from Full Frontal Nerdity and get attacked as edition war baiting. Yet, this thread gets started, by the guy who accused me of edition war baiting, with an obviously slanted and biased review, and we're supposed to nod and stroke our beards and say what a great review this is.

 

[Plane Sailing]

C'mon guys - avoid baiting one another or antagonistic comments. Stick with a nice, rational discussion. Mention what you agree with and why, or what you disagree with and why, but without impassioned statements in this case.

Thanks

 

[Shadeydm]

~ some comments removed in light of my warning - PS ~

Personally I found the review to be pretty undecided with both positive and negative observations about the game, some of which I agreed with and some of which I did not.

 

[Gothmog]

I assume that you already know that the knowledge skills are part of nature, arcana etc skills?

Either way, I would like to hear more about how you implemented those skills.

Cheers

Hey Jack99,

Yep, I know some knowledge skills made it in, but some of the distinctions don't make much sense. For example, knowledge of the Far Realms being in the Dungeoneering skill, or Arcana folding in Fey, Shadowfell, and Elemental knowledge (3 VERY different areas in 4e). So I put in a few new skills such as Forbidden Lore (Far Realms and other assorted weirdness in my world), Spirit Lore (Shadowfell), Faerie Lore, Undead Lore, Supernal Lore, etc. I wanted a little more granularity out of the knowledges than what 4e offered.

As for crafting and profession skills, I simply ruled that at character creation, a PC can choose 2 crafting or profession skills that are trained. For crafting, I use ICE's old book "...and a 10 foot pole" (probably the best equipment book of all time for ANY time period) which lists item cost, manufacturing times etc. Crafting a normal quality item requires a DC 15 check, while crafting a superior or masterwork item is a DC 30 check. And no taking 20 on those checks, although taking 10 is an option. Item manufacture costs are 1/4 the final sale price of the item, subject to modification depending on the item and materials. Using profession skills (like sailor, etc) can come up in play (and has fairly frequently), with DCs variable depending on the nature of the task. Thats pretty much it. The players seem satisfied with what I've done and we can have those extra skills in game while also keeping it simple.

 

[LostSoul]

The same way wargames can be tactically deep even if dealing with a scenario where there little differentiation in units for the Order of Battle.

Is that true of 4e? I would think not, but I don't play a lot of wargames, so I don't know.

 

[Mallus]

I was surprised in that I watched the whole thing. I thought it was good review, made better by being completely off-the-cuff, though I disagreed w/a lot of the guy's points.

It reminded me that the game the rules inspire isn't always that closely related to the game on the page (I loved my long 2e campaign) which can make discussing the benefits of various rule sets kind of knotty...

 

[BryonD]

BTW, trolling around to follow me from thread to thread isn't cool dude. Just put me on ignore if I bother you that much.

Don't flatter yourself.
I came to this thread because it looked interesting.
The irony of your comment was simply beyond my will save.

Oh yeah, and breaking the rules by accusing me of trolling isn't cool dude.

(Other than that, you don't bother me. I'm having a good time )

 

[Jack99]

So I put in a few new skills such as Forbidden Lore (Far Realms and other assorted weirdness in my world), Spirit Lore (Shadowfell), Faerie Lore, Undead Lore, Supernal Lore, etc. I wanted a little more granularity out of the knowledges than what 4e offered.

Sounds like a good solution. And how have you made those available to the different classes? I am asking, because I have the same issues as you, but I haven't had the time to come up with a decent fix...

As for crafting and profession skills, I simply ruled that at character creation, a PC can choose 2 crafting or profession skills that are trained. For crafting, I use ICE's old book "...and a 10 foot pole" (probably the best equipment book of all time for ANY time period) which lists item cost, manufacturing times etc. Crafting a normal quality item requires a DC 15 check, while crafting a superior or masterwork item is a DC 30 check. And no taking 20 on those checks, although taking 10 is an option. Item manufacture costs are 1/4 the final sale price of the item, subject to modification depending on the item and materials. Using profession skills (like sailor, etc) can come up in play (and has fairly frequently), with DCs variable depending on the nature of the task. Thats pretty much it. The players seem satisfied with what I've done and we can have those extra skills in game while also keeping it simple.

Sounds like a good book. Will have to see if I can track it down.

 

[TheWinslow]

OMG. This guy is such a rambler. I definitely agree with anyone who says he doesn't give anything but anecdotal evidence.

 

[Mallus]

This guy is such a rambler.

It adds a human touch.

I definitely agree with anyone who says he doesn't give anything but anecdotal evidence.

He's giving his opinion... you should want mathematical proofs?