Spot the Dragon!

[MarauderX]

We have an annoying game of Spot the Black Dragon. A black dragon that we are in combat with starts it's turn being suspended just over a pool of water. It generates one of it's black clouds (5x5x5). We presumed that the cloud can also be created and provide concealment when it is under water. Then the dragon breaks free from being held, and now we need to make perception checks to determine where the dragon is at.

If the dragon went into the water, whether half or all the way, would the party get a circumstance bonus? Could the party therefore deduce, from a decent preception check, that the dragon either went into the water or stayed suspended in the air?

This assumes we are basing things on a certain amount of 'realistic' logic, such as the party hearing the dragon do a cannonball and/or seeing large water ripples coming from the blackness.

 

[themilkman]

I think you make a solid point, but that's really an issue that needs to be decided by the DM. AFAIK, this isn't covered anywhere in the rules.

No much of an answer, but there it is.

 

[gtoasnt3]

I hope that I understand your question correctly, but I'll try and answer from what I would do as a life long DM (your DM's opinion is the only one that matters, however).

If the Dragon entered the water, and the PC's were in the room, the PC's would receive a Perception check based on the noise created by the splash. My daughter is on the swim/dive team at school, and trust me when I say that even the best dive with the smallest spash is still heard over the noise of the spectators. This would be modified by their distance to the Dragon as stated in the rules.

Now let's say the Dragon tried to stealth his/her way into the water. I'd probably give him a -5 to his stealth check and allow for the PC's to counter with a Perception. Again, modified by the PC's distance.

I wrote this response without any of the books in hand. That's how I would have handled it in a game to keep things flowing.

 

[balard]

I would say they listen to the dragon dive automatically, but have to make perception checks to learn where.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

It also gives you a chance to have the dragon play tricksy - while in the darkness, he slaps the water with his tail and then hides behind a large boulder...

Incidentally, nature/dungeonering checks should probably be used to find the dragon using ripples.

Dr. Ruminahui - shrink with a spear

 

[Nail]

Boy do I hope we don't run into a Black Dragon. They sound like they're all kinds of annoying.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I think I'd agree with gtoasnt3, both because it makes sense and I'd say the rules support him on it. If you move more than 2 squares using Stealth, you get a -5 penalty. For a creature of that size, shorter than 2 squares he could probably just slip into the water instead of dive, so yeah. Give the dragon the -5 stealth penalty, and say it's because the dragon had to dive into the water instead of just slip in. It'll still avoid notice of most of the party members anyway

 

[MarauderX]

I agree that there isn't much to offer when effects & such are going between mediums.

We got the dragon's location again, thankfully, as we're level 6 versus a level 11 dragon. Now we just need another good round from our strikers.

 

[DracoSuave]

Boy do I hope we don't run into a Black Dragon. They sound like they're all kinds of annoying.

They are Lurkers. They are of the monster type -Annoying-.

They are well known for their ability to hit and run against a party who's used to toe to toe dragonfights.

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

The biologist in me wants to point out that a lot of diving birds are able to enter the water with a much smaller splash than other animals of similar size. I'm not saying that there's not going to be any noise or splash just that an intelligent creature that spends a lot of time in water is going to have mastered the art of diving as quietly as possible - particularly if it's only using a 'walk' movement. Yeah if it's 'running' then there's a big splash, but a quiet entry would not be beyond what it could do. And then as Dr. Ruminahui says - is the noise enough to know where it is - no just enough to give you a clue for where you direct your search.