D&D 3E/3.5 Staff and wizard abilities (3.5)

[A Curmudgeon]

Just what aspects of the wizard override characteristics of the staff? DMG states the wizzies DC trumps the staffs if it is higher. Then it looks like it opens up a cam of worms by saying the spell penetration feat affects the staff output as well.

So what feats affect the staff? Obviously the spell pen line. How about spell focus which affects DC (seems like it should) My thought would be that no meta-magic would affect the staff. But what about other powers? Does the Arch-mage prestige class' Spell Power affect the staff? Would other AM high arcana affect a staff?

Thanks

 

[Dross]

Just what aspects of the wizard override characteristics of the staff? DMG states the wizzies DC trumps the staffs if it is higher. Then it looks like it opens up a cam of worms by saying the spell penetration feat affects the staff output as well.

So what feats affect the staff? Obviously the spell pen line. How about spell focus which affects DC (seems like it should) My thought would be that no meta-magic would affect the staff. But what about other powers? Does the Arch-mage prestige class' Spell Power affect the staff? Would other AM high arcana affect a staff?

Thanks

Spell focus affects the DC ("relevant feats to set the DC for saves").
My take is if caster level is better than the staff:
up the values for: saves, range, duration, # of dice of damage, spell penetration, fight against dispelling.
Metamagic would not work on the staff: no Heighten, Widen, Energy Substitution, etc

As for the Archmage:
Spell Power: I would allow to affect a staff. To me it is more "Oomph" rather than modification of the staff's magic. My justification is the "purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables such as damage dice or range, and caster level checks only" in the PrC description. I would not be upset if a DM said "No" though.

I would also allow domain spells at +# caster level be affected (seems reasonable and consistent to me).

Mastery of Shaping, Mastery of Elements, Arcane Reach: I'd say no. They are like the feats in that they modify the magic coming out of the staff.

It's a fairly subtle distinction admittedly.

My memory might be off but I recall a feat somewhere (probably third party but would not be surprised it being in the Complete books) allowing casters to use meta-magic feats to modify staffs and/or wands.

 

[A Curmudgeon]

That was my take on it.

TY

 

[Persiflage]

My memory might be off but I recall a feat somewhere (probably third party but would not be surprised it being in the Complete books) allowing casters to use meta-magic feats to modify staffs and/or wands.

Your memory is not off

The feat in question is Metamagic Spell Trigger, it can be found in Complete Mage, and the pertinent text from same answering Mr. Curmudgeon's question runs thusly:

Benefit: You can apply any one metamagic feat you know to a spell generated by a spell trigger item (such as a wand or staff) that you activate. You expend one extra charge for each change in spell level a metamagic feat normally requires.

The feat allows you to modify a spell cast from a staff with any (one) metamagic feat you know, therefore by implication this isn't something you can do without the feat.

Furthermore, the text in the DMG is actually:

Not only are aspects of the spell dependent on caster level (range, duration, and so on) potentially higher, but spells from a staff are harder to dispel and have a better chance of overcoming a target’s spell resistance (especially if the wielder has the Spell Penetration feat).

Following on as this does from the text about using "the wielder’s ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells" *, it's clear that only feats appertaining to caster level are relevant. That Spell Penetration should apply is intuitive: overcoming spell resistance is a caster level check, staffs allow modifiers to caster level possessed by the wielder in whatever context, ergo Spell Penetration (a bonus to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance) logically also applies.

(*) It should be noted that an earlier discussion of staffs in the DMG is slightly more broad in its categorisation of "things that apply to spells cast from staffs".

Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC. For example, if Devis the bard triggers charm person from a staff of charming, it will have a save DC of 14 because Devis
has a Charisma of 17. If Mialee the wizard triggers charm person from the same staff, it has a DC of 16 because her Intelligence score is 18 and she has the Spell Focus (enchantment) feat.

So a Master Specialist Illusionist's +2 to the DC of "Will disbelief" would apply to spells cast from a staff, as would sundry other PrC benefits. The Archmage's Spell Power ability would also certainly apply: it's not a metamagic feat, it's a flat +1 increase to the wielder's caster level, and the wielder's caster level is explicitly used by the staff: the staff doesn't care how you got that caster level. Consider Ultimate Magus and the Arcane Spell Power "increase-my-caster-level-for-no-good-reason" class ability.

As for the other High Arcana: definitely not. The relevant abilities don't meet any of the listed criteria (express or implied) for what can be used with a staff: they don't affect caster level and don't affect save DC's. Hell, they're not even metamagic by any standard definition: they're just stuff an Archmage can do. Arcane Reach is a supernatural ability modifying the caster's spells in ways unrelated to the staff's functioning, so there's no reason on Oerth to suppose it interacts with a staff.

So is Arcane Fire, of course, but nobody will ever care.

And yes, clerics using a staff get caster level boosts from domain granted powers too. Taking a strict reading of what's in the DMG, they'd get the increases to caster level from items (orange prism ioun stone, bead of karma) or even spells when casting from a staff.