Staff Fighting and Dual Implement Spellcaster

[Falling Icicle]

If I take the Staff Fighting feat, which lets me treat a staff as a double weapon, can I use the Dual Implement Spellcaster feat with it?

 

[Diirk]

No, its a double weapon, but still only 1 implement. Similarly, if you took Arcane Proficiency (Heavy Blade), you couldn't use a double bladed sword with dual implement spell caster.

 

[Trevelyan]

Yes. Moreover, the character builder allows this and attributes the damage bonus accordingly.

 

[Caliban]

Yes. Moreover, the character builder allows this and attributes the damage bonus accordingly.

I doubt it. It's still only one implement, it just counts as two weapons.

I wouldn't trust the character builder at face value on issues like this - bug report it and see what WOTC says.

 

[Caliber]

Hurm. RAI, I agree, that this shouldn't fly. The caster is getting double the enhancement bonus of his item added to damage essentially for free. RAW though, I'm not so sure. Don't double weapons essentially say to treat them as two separate weapons for rules purposes? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an entry in the Compendium for the double weapon property.

This is probably something that could use a WotC response.

 

[Akaiku]

It counts as wielding two staffs. You can use a staff as an implement. Fun with staffs of ruin.

 

[Eldorian]

Hurm. RAI, I agree, that this shouldn't fly. The caster is getting double the enhancement bonus of his item added to damage essentially for free.

Free? It costs 2 feats... One of which has a dex requirement, the other a wis. Far from free.

 

[Caliber]

Free? It costs 2 feats... One of which has a dex requirement, the other a wis. Far from free.

Keep in mind, to get ANY bonus from the second implement, he'd have to get the Dual Implement Wielder feat anyway, so it isn't appropriate to count that in the "cost" of this concept.

That said, sure it costs one feat to make the staff a double weapon, but for the price of that feat you're getting a "double the enhancement bonus of staves for damage rolls". Is that balanced with the usual requirement from users of the feat of having to buy an additional Implement to carry? I guess that will vary from DM to DM.

 

[Mahali]

No, its a double weapon, but still only 1 implement. Similarly, if you took Arcane Proficiency (Heavy Blade), you couldn't use a double bladed sword with dual implement spell caster.

Agreed.
You're still not wielding two implements.

Never go by the CB for rules. Someday it may be bug free and apply all the rules appropriately. That also assumes no more errata at some point too.

 

[Eldorian]

Keep in mind, to get ANY bonus from the second implement, he'd have to get the Dual Implement Wielder feat anyway, so it isn't appropriate to count that in the "cost" of this concept.

That said, sure it costs one feat to make the staff a double weapon, but for the price of that feat you're getting a "double the enhancement bonus of staves for damage rolls". Is that balanced with the usual requirement from users of the feat of having to buy an additional Implement to carry? I guess that will vary from DM to DM.

No matter the DM, you're almost guaranteed to have an old implement of 1 less plus than your current one. It's the one you had before you got your current one.

Basically, a staff wielder spends two feats, one with a dex requirement and one with a wisdom requirement to get 1 ac and double the enhancement bonus of his staff to damage. That doesn't sound too bad to me. An other caster, for example, sorcerer, can spend one feat that has a dex requirement to get a feat that adds his enhancement bonus to damage -1. Sounds fair too. My sorcerer currently uses a mage's parrying dagger for his off hand, but he'll likely pick up the dual implement feat and use his older dagger in his offhand when he gets the feats for it.