Standard D&D cosmology and souls

[gizmo33]

When a person dies and their soul departs, they traditionally go to the Outer Planes. If so, the Astral would be the most common place to encounter ghosts, no?

That makes sense if
1. ghosts form because they undertake part of journey to the afterlife, then stop
2. the way to get to the afterlife is through the astral plane (which is standard DnD)

However, ghosts are undead so they might not form because of 1. They might actually have no interest in reaching the afterlife, so as Voadam pointed out, they could power their undead status and reside in any plane they choose.

Are all ghosts and spirits classified as undead? It seems strange to me that a good priest could be able to blast apart some friendly spirit sent to warn him of danger.

I've been using my own cosmology for so long I don't really know what the "official" notes are on all of this.

 

[Voadam]

That makes sense if
1. ghosts form because they undertake part of journey to the afterlife, then stop
2. the way to get to the afterlife is through the astral plane (which is standard DnD)

However, ghosts are undead so they might not form because of 1. They might actually have no interest in reaching the afterlife, so as Voadam pointed out, they could power their undead status and reside in any plane they choose.

Are all ghosts and spirits classified as undead? It seems strange to me that a good priest could be able to blast apart some friendly spirit sent to warn him of danger.

I've been using my own cosmology for so long I don't really know what the "official" notes are on all of this.

Under RAW ghosts are undead.

Spirits of those who have gone on are generally covered as outsiders.

 

[Desdichado]

Since there's not clear indication of where souls come from given what we know of the cosmology, logically they must come from outside the cosmology, i.e., the Far Realm.

Well, I think it'd potentially be interesting anyway...

 

[MetalBard]

I personally like the explanations from Bastion of Broken Souls. It's initially what tempted me to buy the module.

As for ghosts, I think it's a great idea that, because of whatever circumstances that caused them to hang around, they popped into the wrong transitive plane (the ethereal) and are now stuck because they can't move on to the outer planes through that plane.

Sorry, a little addendum here: As for why ghosts would end up being in the ethereal, maybe they "regressed" metaphysically. I think in psychology there's something about people regressing to a child-like state when faced with severe mental or emotional trauma. Maybe the emotional trauma that causes a ghost to stick around in the first place causes the soul to "regress" at the moment of death, sending it to the transitive plane it originally came through.

 

[Pants]

That makes sense if
1. ghosts form because they undertake part of journey to the afterlife, then stop
2. the way to get to the afterlife is through the astral plane (which is standard DnD)

Under 3.x Ghosts form because of wrongs committed during their life, usually ending in their deaths. They are bound to the material world until the 'wrong' is 'righted' (wow, that's awkward).
Why they end up on the Ethereal and not the Astral is up to debate, I don't remember any previous editions declaring WHY other than perhaps it's because the Ethereal is very 'close' to the Material Plane ie it overlaps.

As for flavour reasons, I just like reading all the different theories.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

This is an interesting question. I've given thought in my homebrew to where souls go, but not where they come from. After some thought, though, it all clicks, rather nicely.

In my homebrew the world is created from the Dreams of the gods. The most evil of the gods is created from the nightmares of the gods (their self-doubt, etc.)

There are only three "planes" (Shadow, Dream, and Faerie) and a multitude of demi-planes and material planes. The souls of the dead travel the Plane of Shadow on their way to their ultimate reward. Those that deserve no reward, become lost of the Plane of Shadow. Shadow in my cosmology replaces the Ethereal Plane. Thus, you have ghosts.

So where are souls from? They're created from little itty bit bits of the gods' dreams, just like the world itself is. And they have a itty bit of the Nightmare God in them too, responsible for the evil that they do. A nice, elegant explanation.

 

[Voadam]

Since there's not clear indication of where souls come from given what we know of the cosmology, logically they must come from outside the cosmology, i.e., the Far Realm.

Well, I think it'd potentially be interesting anyway...

So your saying all little kids are horrific shrieking monsters not in sinc with this reality who can drive you insane?

 

[gizmo33]

Spirits of those who have gone on are generally covered as outsiders.

That's the way I run it. And that's why I don't put too much stock in the Ethereal plane connection that ghosts have. It's like trying to deduce the nature of life by the way a ghoul behaves. IMO Undead's attributes probably come from their evil natures and will to exist, moreso than the nature of death and the afterlife.

It's like that movie "Shocker" where the guy gets the electric chair and comes back as a ghost with an "electric" template. In that case, the electricity is powering his undead status. IMC normal ghosts use the Ethereal Plane in the same way - it's a source of energy and being co-existent with the Prime Material, it's accessible at the time of death.

 

[Kemrain]

So your saying all little kids are horrific shrieking monsters not in sinc with this reality who can drive you insane?

Sounds like an accurate, if rather conservative, description.

- Kemrain the Not-a-Parent.

 

[Sammael]

Nitpick.
When a person dies and their soul departs, they traditionally go to the Outer Planes. If so, the Astral would be the most common place to encounter ghosts, no? Assuming the dying souls don't traverse the Ethereal (why would they? That goes to the Inner Planes.), the Astral would be a better fit right?

Actually, my idea was that ghosts were "lost souls" who tried to go back to their source and then ended up being stuck on the Ehtereal and got infused with the negative energy seeping in from the Negative Energy Plane. After all, if ghosts were common on the Astral, they'd have (under 2E cosmology) no access to the negative energy that powers them. That, and they could just travel the Astral until they reached the Outer Planes.