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Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7953686" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>Little late on this...but</p><p></p><p>I feel that's actually a misrepresentation of many of the fans that the Disney Star Wars has disappointed.</p><p></p><p>Calling many of them toxic seems to actually have worked against them. Referencing that to RPGs (as this is RPG board) it is a lesson that WotC learned the hard way to a degree. At first they had 4e and kind of put down the earlier versions. Then, when people complained some tried to paint those that were complaining as toxic and only causing problems. </p><p></p><p>This was a failure to listen and a failure to actually listen to criticism rather than to be more humble and learn what may have gone wrong and what people were actually unhappy about. There were a LOT of jumbled things in there, and some didn't know exactly what they wanted...only that they were unhappy about it.</p><p></p><p>WotC and Hasbro has some SMART people though. They LEARNED and GREW. In the next go around they completely switched directions and how they handled criticism. Instead of simply trying to write off criticism of others, they made it a core point of the development of 5e. They ran a LOOONG testing process where they received a LOT of input. Instead of putting down criticism they tried to respond in constructive and respectful ways.</p><p></p><p>The result (in my opinion) is that because they were at least respectful of others comments on the design process, and took into consideration what others said, they came out with a MASSIVE amount of good will and PR. They've continued to build upon that PR and good will.</p><p></p><p>I think at times trying to paint fans who are disappointed as toxic creates the opposite result of what one actually desires as a company. Instead, treat them respectfully and try to answer constructively regarding what they are asking about. </p><p></p><p>I know Disney is a Giant in some ways compared to Hasbro, but I think Disney in relation to Star Wars could learn a thing or two from Hasbro about building a brand up rather than helping the fans tear it down.</p><p></p><p>On the otherhand, take the New Doctor Who. I think, for the most part, the writing has been brilliant. I've enjoyed it tremendously to be honest. I know that there are many who are unhappy with it, but that hasn't disturbed me or my enjoyment of it. I'm okay with those who are criticizing it. Maybe they have good points. I do not know (though I HAVE been a Who fan for awhile, and have as many of the series from the first doctor to the present as possible on DVD and blu-ray) but when I stop and think I can see where they are disappointed in and about.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't bother me, but I think it might be a good idea for the showrunners to take into consideration why fans may be unhappy if it affects how many are watching or not. As I said, I found the new Doctor so far absolutely terrific. I've enjoyed the Doctor thus far. </p><p></p><p>I would go so far as to even point out the New Doctor as a prime example of what to do when taking a series in a new direction. I feel they've had SOLID writing.</p><p></p><p>On the otherhand, I'd say the writing for the Disney Star Wars movies has been less than stellar. I'd even point it as a BAD example of how to write something for a new direction or even to continue in the same direction. The fact that a white male (Rian Johnson) told off a Black woman that she was a racist misogynist in response to her criticism is actually far more horrific to me than what he is labeling toxic fans (which, ironically many of those I knew were minorities and women...who a WHITE MALE is criticizing and calling all sorts of things). If the writing wasn't bad enough, the WAY they've handled the criticism to me is FAR more toxic than anything else and probably has done far more damage to the Star Wars brand than anything else.</p><p></p><p>How this relates to Star Trek...I'm not sure. I know there are people out there that dislike the new Star Trek. I actually can agree with some of the criticisms of STD. I don't let it bother me though. I think they took some of those criticisms though and listened to them. I feel this is one reason they came out with Picard. </p><p></p><p>One criticism was that people did NOT want prequels, they wanted a sequel to STNG, DS9, Or VOY era tv series. They wanted a continuation, to see what happened in the future. I feel Picard is the answer to that. They took those ideas and made a new series. They did not want to tread the familiar ground that the other series had already covered (multiple times in fact) and so put it in a new style and format. </p><p></p><p>I don't like the cussing (I feel it's sort of not needed and it feels off as if they put it in only to show that they could put it in rather than it feeling a natural extension of how the characters would act...but that's a minor gripe) but overall I think they've pulled off what fans have been asking for. I think Picard will have a bigger fanbase than STD.</p><p></p><p>After writing this, I may add I don't know what the fans have griped about Picard. I do not know the criticisms. I haven't really followed it in that way and none of the criticisms have really come pointedly across most of the boards I have read. Perhaps I'll see more of it as I read more of this thread, but if there is a large contingent of unhappy fans, I'd say it is more constructive to listen to what they are saying than to simply dismiss them with a handwave and call them toxic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7953686, member: 4348"] Little late on this...but I feel that's actually a misrepresentation of many of the fans that the Disney Star Wars has disappointed. Calling many of them toxic seems to actually have worked against them. Referencing that to RPGs (as this is RPG board) it is a lesson that WotC learned the hard way to a degree. At first they had 4e and kind of put down the earlier versions. Then, when people complained some tried to paint those that were complaining as toxic and only causing problems. This was a failure to listen and a failure to actually listen to criticism rather than to be more humble and learn what may have gone wrong and what people were actually unhappy about. There were a LOT of jumbled things in there, and some didn't know exactly what they wanted...only that they were unhappy about it. WotC and Hasbro has some SMART people though. They LEARNED and GREW. In the next go around they completely switched directions and how they handled criticism. Instead of simply trying to write off criticism of others, they made it a core point of the development of 5e. They ran a LOOONG testing process where they received a LOT of input. Instead of putting down criticism they tried to respond in constructive and respectful ways. The result (in my opinion) is that because they were at least respectful of others comments on the design process, and took into consideration what others said, they came out with a MASSIVE amount of good will and PR. They've continued to build upon that PR and good will. I think at times trying to paint fans who are disappointed as toxic creates the opposite result of what one actually desires as a company. Instead, treat them respectfully and try to answer constructively regarding what they are asking about. I know Disney is a Giant in some ways compared to Hasbro, but I think Disney in relation to Star Wars could learn a thing or two from Hasbro about building a brand up rather than helping the fans tear it down. On the otherhand, take the New Doctor Who. I think, for the most part, the writing has been brilliant. I've enjoyed it tremendously to be honest. I know that there are many who are unhappy with it, but that hasn't disturbed me or my enjoyment of it. I'm okay with those who are criticizing it. Maybe they have good points. I do not know (though I HAVE been a Who fan for awhile, and have as many of the series from the first doctor to the present as possible on DVD and blu-ray) but when I stop and think I can see where they are disappointed in and about. It doesn't bother me, but I think it might be a good idea for the showrunners to take into consideration why fans may be unhappy if it affects how many are watching or not. As I said, I found the new Doctor so far absolutely terrific. I've enjoyed the Doctor thus far. I would go so far as to even point out the New Doctor as a prime example of what to do when taking a series in a new direction. I feel they've had SOLID writing. On the otherhand, I'd say the writing for the Disney Star Wars movies has been less than stellar. I'd even point it as a BAD example of how to write something for a new direction or even to continue in the same direction. The fact that a white male (Rian Johnson) told off a Black woman that she was a racist misogynist in response to her criticism is actually far more horrific to me than what he is labeling toxic fans (which, ironically many of those I knew were minorities and women...who a WHITE MALE is criticizing and calling all sorts of things). If the writing wasn't bad enough, the WAY they've handled the criticism to me is FAR more toxic than anything else and probably has done far more damage to the Star Wars brand than anything else. How this relates to Star Trek...I'm not sure. I know there are people out there that dislike the new Star Trek. I actually can agree with some of the criticisms of STD. I don't let it bother me though. I think they took some of those criticisms though and listened to them. I feel this is one reason they came out with Picard. One criticism was that people did NOT want prequels, they wanted a sequel to STNG, DS9, Or VOY era tv series. They wanted a continuation, to see what happened in the future. I feel Picard is the answer to that. They took those ideas and made a new series. They did not want to tread the familiar ground that the other series had already covered (multiple times in fact) and so put it in a new style and format. I don't like the cussing (I feel it's sort of not needed and it feels off as if they put it in only to show that they could put it in rather than it feeling a natural extension of how the characters would act...but that's a minor gripe) but overall I think they've pulled off what fans have been asking for. I think Picard will have a bigger fanbase than STD. After writing this, I may add I don't know what the fans have griped about Picard. I do not know the criticisms. I haven't really followed it in that way and none of the criticisms have really come pointedly across most of the boards I have read. Perhaps I'll see more of it as I read more of this thread, but if there is a large contingent of unhappy fans, I'd say it is more constructive to listen to what they are saying than to simply dismiss them with a handwave and call them toxic. [/QUOTE]
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