Star Wars Saga Edition [SECR] Preview #4 is Up

[Ranger REG]

Why wouldn't a trained warrior continue to benefit from his armor? If anything, I think armor should require high training to be effective. I would make armor have a penalty to attack, defense, and most skills/actions (making it easier to be hit and harder to attack or do most physical actions) at the benefit of some damage reduction. That way

You don't like the Armored Defense talent tree?

 

[Reaper Steve]

You don't like the Armored Defense talent tree?

Well yeah, it's a step, but I think an unneccessary one that forces a waste of talents.

If instead, light armor gave 5 damage reduction at the cost of -2 attack, -2 reflex defense, and -2 physical skills (would have to playtest the exact numbers), then eventually a characters level could overcome the penalties... for the most part. A low lvel character may decide that -2 penalties is too much, or he may decide its worth the DR. At higher level, the penalty isn't as big a deal, but its still enough to be a penalty against a similarly levelled character.

I guess I just don't like the rules actually making a character too good for armor.

Otherwise, I am a huge fan of the new system. I can finally accept hit points as a concept with this system, because gaining a level finally means so much more than more hit points and a better attack bonus, but also a better defense bonus and more damage. This is a great equalizer that I am suuprised has taken 30 years to be created.

Again, my hope was that the saga edition system would be *the new system* for 4e, and it very well could be from what I've seen so far, except saga's handling of armor would not be a good D&D fit, IMHO.

That being said, if forced to play without modification, I'd rather play a fantasy game using SW SAGA than D&D 1,2,3, or 3.5

 

[Ranger REG]

Again, my hope was that the saga edition system would be *the new system* for 4e, and it very well could be from what I've seen so far, except saga's handling of armor would not be a good D&D fit, IMHO.

Dude, I haven't thought that far, nor hope because I don't want 4e anytime soon. Talk to me about 4e around 2010 (or late 2009).

d20 Modern revision ... perhaps. Already consolidating skills for that game. Ready to incorporate HP+Condition Track (I'm more a fan of wound-level health model than a drop-dead-on-the-spot health model).

For now, they're trying to strike a balance between the use of armors like Bobba Fett, Stormtroopers, and Darth Vader with heroes that don't use armors like Luke, Leia, and Han. For now, let's concentrate on Star Wars RPG.

 

[JohnSnow]

Well yeah, it's a step, but I think an unneccessary one that forces a waste of talents.

If instead, light armor gave 5 damage reduction at the cost of -2 attack, -2 reflex defense, and -2 physical skills (would have to playtest the exact numbers), then eventually a characters level could overcome the penalties... for the most part. A low lvel character may decide that -2 penalties is too much, or he may decide its worth the DR. At higher level, the penalty isn't as big a deal, but its still enough to be a penalty against a similarly levelled character.

I guess I just don't like the rules actually making a character too good for armor.

Well, I think that's a thematic device for Star Wars. Basically, it's a genre convention of the series that most characters don't wear armor. In a fantasy game, you could EASILY let Armor Compatibility be a class feature/talent for the classes you want to wear armor, and have it not be available to others for whom it's thematically inappropriate.

Without spending any talents on learning to wear armor (bearing in mind that this is hugely significant), the character gets the armor bonus instead of his character level-derived defense bonus. Assuming that the class bonus isn't completely voided - which is hard to tell - the character will still get their REF bonus (if any) from their class.

Since in the previews we've seen at least one character with +7 armor, that would seem to indicate that a PC has to be at least 8th level before not wearing armor without real training hurts him. Better armor probably gets as good as , oh, +10 (as in D&D), meaning the character has to be 11th-level before it's "useless." Sure, Han Solo shouldn't wear a blast vest or Stormtrooper armor, but notice that he shucks it once he doesn't need it as a disguise.

And given the information that certain types of armor raise threshold as well, there might be PCs who'd trade off a couple points of REF defense for the higher damage threshold.

 

[Reaper Steve]

For now, they're trying to strike a balance between the use of armors like Bobba Fett, Stormtroopers, and Darth Vader with heroes that don't use armors like Luke, Leia, and Han. For now, let's concentrate on Star Wars RPG.

I agree on all points, and I'll try to avoid hijacking the topic further. It is a minor point, and the only point of contention I have after 6 previews full of changes. Otherwise, I am completely enamored with the new system and have renewed faith in d20 as a whole. If d20 modern and D&D follow this lead, then I'll be in RPG heaven.

 

[Ranger REG]

If d20 modern and D&D follow this lead, then I'll be in RPG heaven.

Talk to Cyber-Dave on WotC's d20 Modern forums. He's posting up his revisions.

 

[Skywalker]

the added stuff like hp has nothing to do with my question about the static addition of dodge and damage for level.

Surely those are better assigned at the class selection and not the level only

I disagree. Otherwise you end up doubling up advantages. Soldiers are will have better access to Defense and Damage increasing feats and talents and have a higher Base Attack.

The increase of Defense and Damage by level is not to repeat the same advantage for Soldiers but to create another advantage for higher characters over lower ones.

As Reaper Steve puts it:

I really like how defense scales with level. It neatly protects higher level chars from lower level ones while at the same time placing equal level chars on equal footing (since the BAB will be cancelled by the defense bonus.)

 

[3d6]

I'm curious how they're going to deal with grenades and similar weapons after the elimination of saving throws. If they want to cleave to the old system, I suppose the grenade will just have its own attack bonus that it uses against the Reflex Defense of creatures in the area.

Non-heroic characters are going to be slaughtered by PCs. Their Reflex Defense is just 10 + Dexterity + armor. I wonder how NPC CR is calculated?

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm curious how they're going to deal with grenades and similar weapons. If they want to cleave to the old system, I suppose the grenade will just have its own attack bonus that it uses against the Reflex Defense of creatures in the area. I wonder if one attack roll is made and compared to every creature in the area, or if an attack roll is made against each creature individually?

(Speculation)

It's the one who throws the grenade or set up the explosion make the attack roll for it, perhaps using the explosive's attack bonus.

If the DM set up or throw the explosive in the adventure, he rolls it.

IOW, it's a role reversal.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm curious to see what BAB will look like now. If defense increases at every level, that may make it a bit harder for medium BAB classes to keep up. Then again, with only 1 attack per round, iteratives aren't as big a deal.