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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7593853" data-attributes="member: 6785785">No, it's like saying someone is able to block laser blasts fired by a droid while blindfolded seconds after learning there's such things as the Force and Jedi and Lightsabers. If you want to make an analogy that fits, I'd say it's like someone finding out there are such things as screws, and then being handed a screwdriver, and then they build themselves a house.I said Luke's initial training on Dagobah is likely somewhere between a couple of days and a couple of weeks. He leaves Hoth at the same time as Han and the others, and then they are pursued by the Empire and hide in the asteroid field, and then head to Bespin. The Empire arrived just before them and sets their trap. How long do you think they're in the asteroid field? How long at Bespin? The movie doesn't offer a timeframe....but seems odd that Vader would wait more than maybe one day to reveal himself to Han, and it certainly seems like it's about that long. So how long would you say this all takes? As for Anakin, I think the fact that he was powerful with the Force and capable of things well ahead of his rank as a Jedi is clear. Their rankings are designations only....they need not be indicative of actual ability. That's the system the Jedi have in place. But if we're talking about raw ability, that system doesn't really apply. Also, I think that a big part of Anakin's fall is the restrictions that the system placed on him, no? The Jedi are holding him back, so to speak. So much of what they do seems to be about avoiding the dark side than it is about actual Force usage. So in The Last Jedi, when Yoda and Luke kind of address the failings of the Jedi ways, I'd think that immediately comes to mind, no? That they were too hung up on doctrine.  In other words, we have no reason to think that training is an absolute requirement, or that the training must be of a certain duration. Luke's own training was incredibly brief compared to Anakin's, no? And he was able to avoid falling to the dark side and actually wound up redeeming Anakin by example. With maybe months of training. During the briefing, the commander says that the vent is two meters, and everyone in the room reacts. Chewie and Han exchange a look of incredulity. One of the pilots says that the shot is impossible, even for a computer. Luke describes it as not a big deal and that he's made similar shots. While not definitively stated, I'd say this foreshadows that only Luke can make the shot. And what's special about Luke among them all? The Force. Not really. Luke achieves his Return of the Jedi level of ability in far less than 12 years. Maybe as much as 1 year, but likely less than that. Not according to some in this thread....according to what the movies show us. Luke is an incredibly fast learner, at least at first. Then he doubts himslf, and things slow down. Yoda is actually upset that he's not learning faster. And that's over a course of days. Also, Jedi Knight is a title. Yes, we can assume those with the title must have a certain level of ability, but there's nothing in the films that says someone without that title absolutely cannot have the same level of ability. Actually, we know for a fact that non-Jedi can indeed be just as powerful in the Force. Where do you get that from? I've no doubt it's been said somewhere, but I don't think it's ever stated in the films.</blockquote>

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