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Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi argument
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7594206" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>Really!???</p><p></p><p>Annakin used instinct to fly pod racers, but in no way was trained or as good at it as a trained jedi who also knew the controls. He flew as well as he did which was barely enough to win a race the same way other untrained force users were portrayed in movies. It's the same that's been expressed for those with the force, they instinctively can have better reflexes and abilities in flying. This is why Luke also could bullseye womp rats which were not much bigger than the death star exhaust shaft.</p><p></p><p>This would accord with Rey (as long as she learned the controls) being great at flying.</p><p></p><p>However, no way could Luke or Annakin do a Jedi Mind trick or beat even a Padawan with a Lightsaber after less than a day.</p><p></p><p>Luke in no way even credibly fought Vader in ESB. He confronted Vader and sure attacked Vader, but Vader was never really even worried about Luke actually being a credible threat to him. Vader went to try to turn Luke to the Dark side. He had no interest in hurting or killing Luke at all. It was basically one handed parries. He was impressed (after Luke was training on his own for THREE YEARS AND THEN ALSO had an additional bunch of training from Yoda which some say were anywhere from days to months) that Luke wasn't turned into carbonite, but really wasn't fighting Luke. He was TOYING with Luke.</p><p></p><p>He made it obvious that he was toying with Luke when, after luring Luke down, he didn't even use a light saber at one point and simply battered Luke without even fighting!</p><p></p><p>Only when Luke finally got a shot on Vader's shoulder did Vader try. Almost immediately Luke got his hand cut off and Vader got control of his emotions. Luke didn't even present a valid challenge, and got lucky (when you toy with someone for that long, sometimes that happens) with one shot which upset Vader and Luke was promptly shown just how good a fighter Vader was.</p><p></p><p>Rey has had how much training? It's questionable. People assume it was two days or less or maybe three on the island, but just like Dagobah, it's not really all that clear how long it was. Time distortion may have also been a thing there as well. She may have been there days or weeks.</p><p></p><p>Less training then Luke had, but maybe not as impossible to fight Kylo as some may think (if we take that Kylo has the training level of a Padawan as well and not an actual Sith Lord or Jedi Knight).</p><p></p><p>But if he was as imposing as Vader, yeah...Rey beating him this quickly is pretty dumb even with her training that she's had thus far in relation to what was established in the rest of the other six CANON movies made by Lucas.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7594206, member: 4348"] Really!??? Annakin used instinct to fly pod racers, but in no way was trained or as good at it as a trained jedi who also knew the controls. He flew as well as he did which was barely enough to win a race the same way other untrained force users were portrayed in movies. It's the same that's been expressed for those with the force, they instinctively can have better reflexes and abilities in flying. This is why Luke also could bullseye womp rats which were not much bigger than the death star exhaust shaft. This would accord with Rey (as long as she learned the controls) being great at flying. However, no way could Luke or Annakin do a Jedi Mind trick or beat even a Padawan with a Lightsaber after less than a day. Luke in no way even credibly fought Vader in ESB. He confronted Vader and sure attacked Vader, but Vader was never really even worried about Luke actually being a credible threat to him. Vader went to try to turn Luke to the Dark side. He had no interest in hurting or killing Luke at all. It was basically one handed parries. He was impressed (after Luke was training on his own for THREE YEARS AND THEN ALSO had an additional bunch of training from Yoda which some say were anywhere from days to months) that Luke wasn't turned into carbonite, but really wasn't fighting Luke. He was TOYING with Luke. He made it obvious that he was toying with Luke when, after luring Luke down, he didn't even use a light saber at one point and simply battered Luke without even fighting! Only when Luke finally got a shot on Vader's shoulder did Vader try. Almost immediately Luke got his hand cut off and Vader got control of his emotions. Luke didn't even present a valid challenge, and got lucky (when you toy with someone for that long, sometimes that happens) with one shot which upset Vader and Luke was promptly shown just how good a fighter Vader was. Rey has had how much training? It's questionable. People assume it was two days or less or maybe three on the island, but just like Dagobah, it's not really all that clear how long it was. Time distortion may have also been a thing there as well. She may have been there days or weeks. Less training then Luke had, but maybe not as impossible to fight Kylo as some may think (if we take that Kylo has the training level of a Padawan as well and not an actual Sith Lord or Jedi Knight). But if he was as imposing as Vader, yeah...Rey beating him this quickly is pretty dumb even with her training that she's had thus far in relation to what was established in the rest of the other six CANON movies made by Lucas. [/QUOTE]
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