Stargate Altantis Season 3 *Discussion Thread* 9/08

[Shag]

Yeah I really liked the set up for this episode but as soon as Rodney 2 appeared it was crap.

If they can take power from an alternate universe by rebuilding thier own version of project arcturus from thier own equipment, there is no reason they can't take vacuum energy from subspace.
Basically this episode was stating they can build a Ferrari engine but can't build a lawn mower engine. The plot basically broke the suspension of belief angle for me completely.

Also it leaves you with the impression that Jeannie basically screwed over the whole project, however unintentionally. Before she visits: ZPM, after she leaves: screwed.

The 2nd half should have been totally scrapped. Should have been a happy ending...maybe leave them with a fully powered up Atlantis, only to have the Asurans swoop down on them before they figure out how to really use thier new found power. Would have really built them up as a manace, rather than have them take over a basically battery powered city.

Just how I would have rolled that if I had been writing. At least it didn't stink as much as the SG-1 episode, what a waste, it was season 9 stinky.

 

[satori01]

How is it their own equipment? it is Ancient equipment on Atlantis, I thought that was obvious. Clearly that is why Rodney's Sister left her family and life to travel to Atlantis. If human equipment could do it, she could have stayed at home and video conferenced her work. At the very least she could have stayed on Earth

ZPMs run out of energy, the interdimensonal energy does not run out of energy, it is the next tech up on the tech tree
It seemed clear to me the show was hinting the McCays have a knack for this type on theoretical Physics work, as Rodneys comments about their father wanting to have them work together, would also imply he was possibly a scientist.

Moreover on the Ferari vs Lawnmower comment, SG science is all theoretical, and dramatic so who knows, but we have cracked being able to make a nuclear bomb, but still have problems creating efficient batteries. Splitting the atom seems a lot more impressive and up the tech ladder than say really efficient solar cells or lithium batteries.... of course the reality is entropy is a bitch.

 

[Rackhir]

Right, they'll need another ZPM to build more ZPMs, but the point is that it seems that they owuld now be capable of it, so long as they don't mind the ethical dilemmas involved in the fact that doing such a thing will destroy an alternate universe. Of course, if they have a problem with that, they shouldn't use any ZPMs, and they do and they must.
[/spoiler]

Er, actually you're missunderstanding how Zero Point Modules function. The name comes out of a real scientific theory. I forget the details, but basically certain physics equations suggest that "nothing" or vacume contains energy (the Zero Point). This is the energy that a Zero Point Module is presumably drawing on. No alternative dimentions necessary.

 

[DM_Matt]

Er, actually you're missunderstanding how Zero Point Modules function. The name comes out of a real scientific theory. I forget the details, but basically certain physics equations suggest that "nothing" or vacume contains energy (the Zero Point). This is the energy that a Zero Point Module is presumably drawing on. No alternative dimentions necessary.

According to the gateworld Omnipedia "A Z.P.M. derives its enormous power from vacuum energy, derived from a self-contained region of subspace time, and has a potential life of many millions of years."

Seems that it does in fact draw its power from a pocket dimension.

 

[Shag]

How is it their own equipment? it is Ancient equipment on Atlantis, I thought that was obvious. Clearly that is why Rodney's Sister left her family and life to travel to Atlantis. If human equipment could do it, she could have stayed at home and video conferenced her work. At the very least she could have stayed on Earth

It is thier equipment because the ancients didn't leave another project arcturus laying around on Atlantis, they built it from the data they got from the one they found then blew up. Some of the materials are probably anceient and so it the design but they built it.

ZPMs run out of energy, the interdimensonal energy does not run out of energy, it is the next tech up on the tech tree
It seemed clear to me the show was hinting the McCays have a knack for this type on theoretical Physics work, as Rodneys comments about their father wanting to have them work together, would also imply he was possibly a scientist.

Yes they do, but for the purposes of the Atlantis team they are more than good enough.
They don't NEED project Arcturus, they need 3 ZPMs

Moreover on the Ferari vs Lawnmower comment, SG science is all theoretical, and dramatic so who knows, but we have cracked being able to make a nuclear bomb, but still have problems creating efficient batteries. Splitting the atom seems a lot more impressive and up the tech ladder than say really efficient solar cells or lithium batteries.... of course the reality is entropy is a bitch.

Once you start down the dark path of running over your own shows science in the name of plot is when you start breaking down the suspension of disbelief. And unlike your nuke vs batteries example, project arcturus (V2) is directly related to ZPMs, they both take energy from out side space time, arcturus (V2) from an alternate universe (requiring also the tech to build a good chunk of a quantum mirror) and ZPMs from subspace (which is far safer and requires the tech they know and use all the time the hyperdrive)

So it pretty clear to me they could easily build ZPMs if they could attempt Arcturus. Thus my problems with plotjamming the science on the show.

 

[Falkus]

So it pretty clear to me they could easily build ZPMs if they could attempt Arcturus. Thus my problems with plotjamming the science on the show.

Why? A ZPM requires that you create an artificial region of subspace, essentially a small, alternate universe. That's a far cry from simply trying to access what's already here and dumping the side affects somewhere else.

 

[Shag]

I figure they do something very similar everytime they use the hyperdrive, with Asgard assistance I can't see why this can't be done.

 

[satori01]

It is like taking a test on a subject you have the slightest grasp on with someone else's notes, and taking that same test alone.

Atlantis has the cliff notes on Arcturus, not on how to make ZPMs.
Even with the clif notes, humans do not quite get it. Even with Asgard Hyperdrive technology, Humans still have an Asgard aboard their ship to help out.

 

[DM_Matt]

It is like taking a test on a subject you have the slightest grasp on with someone else's notes, and taking that same test alone.

Atlantis has the cliff notes on Arcturus, not on how to make ZPMs.
Even with the clif notes, humans do not quite get it. Even with Asgard Hyperdrive technology, Humans still have an Asgard aboard their ship to help out.

Its unclear the degree to which the Asgard are there becuase of their understanding verses to enforce terms of use on the technology. This is not to say that they are unnecessary from a technological POV, just that they are less necessary than would be implied by your statement.

Besides, at various times there are no Asgard aboard and they do eventually fix whatever they have to.

 

[DMH]

Besides, at various times there are no Asgard aboard and they do eventually fix whatever they have to.

Yes and no. There is only one ship with an Asgard aboard- the one that moves between galaxies. I wonder if the Daedelus would have fallen to the same trap the Odyssey did.