AbeTheGnome
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how far can a human see in starlight or moonlight?
starlight
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AbeTheGnome
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are there no rules for range of vision with no direct source of illumination? why would they even bother specifying "twice as far as a human in starlight" if there's no rule about how far a human can see under those conditions?Darklone said:
AbeTheGnome said:
Because starlight is just referring to the amount of illumination from the sky. There are other factors that must be taken into consideration: terrain, other light sources, structures, etc. It's entirely dependant on the situation and, therefore, the DM. If a human is allowed to see 30ft in a specific situation, the elf can see 60ft. That's it.
This was a simple question in 3.0, which had a nice table to do spot checks for outdoor encounters. I hate hate hate hate HATE that they took away this table in 3.5.
From that table, starlight increases your spot check DC by 10 (5 with low light). Moonlight increaases them by 5 (0 if you have low light).
From that table, starlight increases your spot check DC by 10 (5 with low light). Moonlight increaases them by 5 (0 if you have low light).
TheGogmagog
First Post
How far a human can see is infinite (see that star?) unless it's reduced (by star dust) to total concealment. So claiming an elf can see twice as far is absurd.
I suspect they meant for it to apply to encounter distance. These values still exist in 3.5 in terrain section of dmg (or SRD).
http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm
I suspect they meant for it to apply to encounter distance. These values still exist in 3.5 in terrain section of dmg (or SRD).
http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm
SRD said:
AbeTheGnome
First Post
ok, i may as well give the situation that needs to be resolved. Savage Tides, chp. 1: my character, a stealthy archer, has just boarded the Blue Nixie by way of the ropes on the far side. the pirates (or whatever) are on the other side. that's a distance of something like 115 ft. i assume there's no source of illumination on the pier or the ship other than starlight, and maybe moonlight. this is not forest terrain, or mountainous terrain, or whatever. can the pirates see me? can i see the pirates? do i get a bonus to my hide check? my character has darkvision, but what if he didn't? i've not been able to find rules to help arbitrate this situation, or any similar one.
orcmonk220
First Post
Hiya Abe.
I'm assuming it's my game, so here goes on your rules clarification for this example, at least: You, Kilmer and Nova have boarded the ship. So far, you and Nova have used the mast to hide (both Natural 20's, blimey!), so you're both in no need for ay modifiers. However, I've factored in -2 to the roll for the Pirate's spot check on you - but hey! they won't spot you anyway
If anybody with more knowledge on the rules on this subject is present, please, feel free to correct me. Live and learn, eh?
Chris
p.s. The closest I got, Abe, in case you're interested, is the PHB pg. 165. Also, the back of my Dungeon Master's Screen has distance in different terrain.
I'm assuming it's my game, so here goes on your rules clarification for this example, at least: You, Kilmer and Nova have boarded the ship. So far, you and Nova have used the mast to hide (both Natural 20's, blimey!), so you're both in no need for ay modifiers. However, I've factored in -2 to the roll for the Pirate's spot check on you - but hey! they won't spot you anyway
If anybody with more knowledge on the rules on this subject is present, please, feel free to correct me. Live and learn, eh?
Chris
p.s. The closest I got, Abe, in case you're interested, is the PHB pg. 165. Also, the back of my Dungeon Master's Screen has distance in different terrain.
AbeTheGnome
First Post
hey, what a coincidence. i didn't know you were a Brit!
i'm just asking these questions for future reference, by the way, for when i DM a game. you're welcome to arbitrate it how you wish, or even hand-wave it. that's probably what i would do if it came up, but i was just wondering what the RAW had to say about it, and i can't find anything.
i did find that Spot checks suffer a -1 penalty per 10 feet... but 10 feet beyond what? the illumination rules don't cover natural light, only torches and the like. the terrain rules don't really cover urban settings, aside from well-lit thoroughfares (which this isn't). and what's the base Spot DC for someone who isn't actively hiding, anyway? i dunno, this situation just brought up a couple questions about rules arbitration, and each of those questions brought up a few more.
what did you apply the -2 penalty for? would Bo suffer the same penalty if he didn't have darkvision?
i'm just asking these questions for future reference, by the way, for when i DM a game. you're welcome to arbitrate it how you wish, or even hand-wave it. that's probably what i would do if it came up, but i was just wondering what the RAW had to say about it, and i can't find anything.
i did find that Spot checks suffer a -1 penalty per 10 feet... but 10 feet beyond what? the illumination rules don't cover natural light, only torches and the like. the terrain rules don't really cover urban settings, aside from well-lit thoroughfares (which this isn't). and what's the base Spot DC for someone who isn't actively hiding, anyway? i dunno, this situation just brought up a couple questions about rules arbitration, and each of those questions brought up a few more.
what did you apply the -2 penalty for? would Bo suffer the same penalty if he didn't have darkvision?
orcmonk220
First Post
Bo would indeed, and still does, until he gets within 60 ft. 
If I ever forget about it, I factor it in myself, and let you know in the post.
I think sight is not covered well in 3.5. I usually try wing it, personally. Mind you, I do that a lot throughout life! (esp. until I learn my life in drama pieces).
p.s. Aye, I hail from Blighty!
If I ever forget about it, I factor it in myself, and let you know in the post.I think sight is not covered well in 3.5. I usually try wing it, personally. Mind you, I do that a lot throughout life! (esp. until I learn my life in drama pieces).
p.s. Aye, I hail from Blighty!
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