TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
Not sure why it would be a problem for Eberron. The races have different cultural backgrounds, but go along biologically with standard D&D races.
D&D 5E Starter Set Excerpt 5
- Thread starter thalmin
- Start date
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
All we know fo sho is that this is art with goblins in it in the Starter Set, and it matches the goblin concept art, and is presumably using FR goblins as the baseline.
And FR goblins are a specific kind of goblin -- they are not the same things as Greyhawk goblins or Dragonlance goblins or Mystara goblins or Eberron whatever. Though there may be plenty of similarities.
This means very little for what they might do in some hypothetical future world where they're exploring other settings and developing arts for the goblins for there.
They might go with "all goblins have to look like this," but that would be a mistake on a LOT of levels, so they might get wise and not do that in the end.
A lot depends on how they see the other D&D settings playing into their long-term publishing plans for 5e (if at all). If they stick with FR and mostly release adventures and point you at older books and conversion rules if you want other settings (which might be conservative, but would definitely be viable), they don't need to worry about this question much at all: goblins depicted are FR goblins because FR is the setting for the art in all of 5e. If they view the settings as mere adjuncts to the core game of 5e (a la the 4e philosophy), expect to see the same goblins, but perhaps dressed in slightly different clothes. If they view the settings as true opportunities for unique play experiences, then maybe we'll see every goblin get a different treatment in the art (and then they all meet in Spelljammer and fight!), where they have some similarities, but look different depending on their local identity.
And FR goblins are a specific kind of goblin -- they are not the same things as Greyhawk goblins or Dragonlance goblins or Mystara goblins or Eberron whatever. Though there may be plenty of similarities.
This means very little for what they might do in some hypothetical future world where they're exploring other settings and developing arts for the goblins for there.
They might go with "all goblins have to look like this," but that would be a mistake on a LOT of levels, so they might get wise and not do that in the end.
A lot depends on how they see the other D&D settings playing into their long-term publishing plans for 5e (if at all). If they stick with FR and mostly release adventures and point you at older books and conversion rules if you want other settings (which might be conservative, but would definitely be viable), they don't need to worry about this question much at all: goblins depicted are FR goblins because FR is the setting for the art in all of 5e. If they view the settings as mere adjuncts to the core game of 5e (a la the 4e philosophy), expect to see the same goblins, but perhaps dressed in slightly different clothes. If they view the settings as true opportunities for unique play experiences, then maybe we'll see every goblin get a different treatment in the art (and then they all meet in Spelljammer and fight!), where they have some similarities, but look different depending on their local identity.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Right, so..craoy internet connection at the pub due to a thunderstorm ATE my initial post/response. A true work of literary genius. I mourn its [and your] loss.
Long post short, after many viewings, much consideration and a review of the posts of this thread...this artwork gets a BIG thumbs UP from me.
Yes. I would have gone a bit more green in the skin tones...but for hiding in woodlands/swamps...it makes a lot of sense.
Yes. The ears are bordering on WoW crazy awfulness. But juuuust short. On elves? I'd be appopleptic. But on goblins, it works.
Yes. The armor/weapons are a bit wonky. But c'mon. This is the 2014 edition. Look at the cultural norms for us now. The "crude" pointy bits and pounding marks are exactly what I would expect...vs. a group of elves and their polished finely delicately crafted type of weapons.
Yes. THey are a bit more muscular than I would have liked/expected. But for the leader its fine. There was also (iirc) the odd comment in the 1e MM about goblins having rarities of "giantism"...so you could have a 5-6' tall beefy champion-freak...but still "all Goblin." THat would have been fine. If they go scrawny in future works. Good.
Bottom line. Our individual imaginations are our own. If you want more green goblins or cruder weapons/equipment or scrawn-ier (is that a word?) then have them be that! It's YOUR imagination! It's YOUR game!
The wonder...and it is "wonder"...of this is image are:
1) You get to see the monsters being how they are..."doing what they do." A lone goblin on a field of white is not going to ambush your party. This group? I totally see it.
2) The "vista". There is no plain of white. You are in a scene in the ["a possible"] world. THere's background. There's foreground. This scene is "happening" somewhere.
3) There are adventurers in this scene. They aren't the focus. WHich is fine. But the "players" are there. They are in this situation that is playing out.
4) HOW is it playing out? What is that goblin whispering? What is his leader snarling back? Is there a storm coming? Will they wait for more darkness or go back to their tribe for reinforcements? Are there more adventurers off frame? THere is a STORY happening here...and we, the viewers, get to WONDER and use our IMAGINATION as to WHAT that story is!
This is, in the end, a HUGE success as a D&D image.
Also, like it, hate it, want things different...for me, I can not dispute the "cartoony" nay-sayers. That's a matter of personal taste and preference. For me, personally, cartoony or comic-booky is EXACTLY what I want. I'm playing a fantasy creative game of imagination...not photojournalism. Whatever you think of the "Style", it can not be disputed that the artist of this work put in a lot of thought and effort into and is truly talented...making a TRIUMPH of a D&D picture that does its job...that is, BEING a D&D picture that makes you look and wonder and come up with the story of what's going on.
Have to say, 4 thumbs up (I'm borrowing a couple of friend's thumbs they aren't using). Love it. It's what D&D art has been missing and needed for a while now.
Long post short, after many viewings, much consideration and a review of the posts of this thread...this artwork gets a BIG thumbs UP from me.
Yes. I would have gone a bit more green in the skin tones...but for hiding in woodlands/swamps...it makes a lot of sense.
Yes. The ears are bordering on WoW crazy awfulness. But juuuust short. On elves? I'd be appopleptic. But on goblins, it works.
Yes. The armor/weapons are a bit wonky. But c'mon. This is the 2014 edition. Look at the cultural norms for us now. The "crude" pointy bits and pounding marks are exactly what I would expect...vs. a group of elves and their polished finely delicately crafted type of weapons.
Yes. THey are a bit more muscular than I would have liked/expected. But for the leader its fine. There was also (iirc) the odd comment in the 1e MM about goblins having rarities of "giantism"...so you could have a 5-6' tall beefy champion-freak...but still "all Goblin." THat would have been fine. If they go scrawny in future works. Good.
Bottom line. Our individual imaginations are our own. If you want more green goblins or cruder weapons/equipment or scrawn-ier (is that a word?) then have them be that! It's YOUR imagination! It's YOUR game!
The wonder...and it is "wonder"...of this is image are:
1) You get to see the monsters being how they are..."doing what they do." A lone goblin on a field of white is not going to ambush your party. This group? I totally see it.
2) The "vista". There is no plain of white. You are in a scene in the ["a possible"] world. THere's background. There's foreground. This scene is "happening" somewhere.
3) There are adventurers in this scene. They aren't the focus. WHich is fine. But the "players" are there. They are in this situation that is playing out.
4) HOW is it playing out? What is that goblin whispering? What is his leader snarling back? Is there a storm coming? Will they wait for more darkness or go back to their tribe for reinforcements? Are there more adventurers off frame? THere is a STORY happening here...and we, the viewers, get to WONDER and use our IMAGINATION as to WHAT that story is!
This is, in the end, a HUGE success as a D&D image.
Also, like it, hate it, want things different...for me, I can not dispute the "cartoony" nay-sayers. That's a matter of personal taste and preference. For me, personally, cartoony or comic-booky is EXACTLY what I want. I'm playing a fantasy creative game of imagination...not photojournalism. Whatever you think of the "Style", it can not be disputed that the artist of this work put in a lot of thought and effort into and is truly talented...making a TRIUMPH of a D&D picture that does its job...that is, BEING a D&D picture that makes you look and wonder and come up with the story of what's going on.
Have to say, 4 thumbs up (I'm borrowing a couple of friend's thumbs they aren't using). Love it. It's what D&D art has been missing and needed for a while now.
Scorpio616
First Post
I think four of them have too much of a "Dances with Wargs" look to them.
Middle goblin is good for a non humorous goblin.
Middle goblin is good for a non humorous goblin.
Wrathamon
Adventurer
Why do lots of people want them to be green?
That is not very D&D ... more Warhammer/Warcraft.
By not, i don't mean your D&D, but the long history of published products.
As I said before i have green goblins in my world.
This is more curiosity as to why they should change the traditional look (branding) when you see a yellow/orange goblin you know its D&D and not some other fantasy setting imo.
I think artists started making them green, because either A they're use to seeing green goblins from WoW/Lotr and either took artistic license or didnt know any better, or WotC felt "lets be inclusive to other types?" and let the non-branded ones slip by.
Same thing happens with Orcs. Bright Green orcs started cropping up all over the place. I also miss their pig snouts, ok maybe not
DMZ2112
Chaotic Looseleaf
No, I don't think so. The whole published canon of Eberron could evaporate into the ether tomorrow and I would be unfazed. That doesn't make me unreasonable, it just means I have an opinion (or perhaps a lack thereof). Now, if I said Wizards /should/ round up everyone's Eberron books and bury them alongside the E.T. cartridges in the Sonoma desert, /that/ would make me unreasonable.
I just do not care what happens to Eberron. I'm sure a lot of people derive a lot of entertainment from it, but this decision could render it entirely unplayable (it won't) and my life would remain completely unchanged by that occurrence.
I see the problems with Dark Sun and I should have called it out, too. The thing about Dark Sun is that it is /so/ divorced from mainstream D&D (and so inexplicably beloved) that I wouldn't expect this "rule," should it come to pass, to apply there. Krynn I don't see. Krynn is just another (interesting) world in the Middle Earth continuum.
Well, I hope not. I disagree with you and KM wholeheartedly and have since the get go.
They look just like goblins to me. Far more like goblins than Paizo's little abominations. The only goblins I know with real global market penetration are Games' Workshop's Space Ork gretchin and Blizzard's Warcraft goblins, and I think they've got more in common with D&D5's model than they do with Paizo's or D&D4's. Or D&D3's.
But that just goes back to my earlier post -- we could talk about this for eons and never get anywhere. Everyone sees something different when they look at that picture. For my part I'm content to agree to disagree, as I'm tired of the automatic gainsaying and don't see this discussion producing any further value.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
wait... you did that awesome work, and were not immediately hired to do the entire MM? do you have more art we can see?
Jester David
Hero
The goblins remind me of the troll evolution ad from early 4e:
When it seemed like they were saying "trolls can only be threatening if they're big and overly muscled.
Those are some *buff* goblins.
The heads are okay. The ears are fine. The noses are adequate. But damn those are beefy Mooks.
Especially since the average goblin just has 8 strength. That's what 8 Str looks like to a goblin. What does a scrawny commoner goblin have for Str? 5? And what does the 11 Str boss goblin look like?! He must be a little miniature The Rock.
When it seemed like they were saying "trolls can only be threatening if they're big and overly muscled.
Those are some *buff* goblins.
The heads are okay. The ears are fine. The noses are adequate. But damn those are beefy Mooks.
Especially since the average goblin just has 8 strength. That's what 8 Str looks like to a goblin. What does a scrawny commoner goblin have for Str? 5? And what does the 11 Str boss goblin look like?! He must be a little miniature The Rock.
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tuxgeo
Adventurer
Er, "Sonora desert?"
("Somona" is lush, green, viniculture terroir: Grapes grow there abundantly.)
Edit: As correctly pointed out, that should be "Sonoma."
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