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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8322754" data-attributes="member: 7030563">1. I did not say we should splash the warlock, only splash the pact and offer another explanation of how they get their powers.&nbsp; I don't think you can ignore the patron unless you get rid of it. This is especially true with multiclassing.&nbsp; RAW the character has to make a pact, so the 5th level paladin that wants to multiclass has to find a being capabable of offering one and draw up a pact with it.&nbsp; You can hand wave it, but then it becomes messy .....&nbsp; &quot;Bob where did you get those new spells&quot; .... &quot;Last night while we rested I made a bloodpact with a demigod from the third level of hell&quot; ... &quot;Oh cool, now where is that smuggler hideout located again&quot;2.&nbsp; These are entirely separate from the class.&nbsp; I have never played a Rogue who had a theives guild, but I absolutely have played one who was part of the order of the guantlet (i.e. a Paladin's order).&nbsp; Many Cleric's do not have a church, and the Paladin only belongs to an order if they started out as a faction agent, joined an order during the course of the game or otherwise put it into their backstory.&nbsp; This really gets to my point, the Warlock can do any and all of these things - be part of a church, theives guild or order of knights, but whichever of these he does, or anything else for that matter, he has to drag around the baggage of his pact with him.3.&nbsp; Shared backstory at the start of a campaign is limiting, shared backstory at a later point in a campaign is automatic.&nbsp; Players from all walks of life join together to beat the cult.&nbsp; At level 1 they all have a different backstory.&nbsp; At level 10 they a significant story (which is now backstory) from level 1-9.&nbsp; That is not to say they didn't come and go and do their own thing from time to time, but they are bonded with a shared experience in the game they played.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8322754, member: 7030563"] 1. I did not say we should splash the warlock, only splash the pact and offer another explanation of how they get their powers. I don't think you can ignore the patron unless you get rid of it. This is especially true with multiclassing. RAW the character has to make a pact, so the 5th level paladin that wants to multiclass has to find a being capabable of offering one and draw up a pact with it. You can hand wave it, but then it becomes messy ..... "Bob where did you get those new spells" .... "Last night while we rested I made a bloodpact with a demigod from the third level of hell" ... "Oh cool, now where is that smuggler hideout located again" 2. These are entirely separate from the class. I have never played a Rogue who had a theives guild, but I absolutely have played one who was part of the order of the guantlet (i.e. a Paladin's order). Many Cleric's do not have a church, and the Paladin only belongs to an order if they started out as a faction agent, joined an order during the course of the game or otherwise put it into their backstory. This really gets to my point, the Warlock can do any and all of these things - be part of a church, theives guild or order of knights, but whichever of these he does, or anything else for that matter, he has to drag around the baggage of his pact with him. 3. Shared backstory at the start of a campaign is limiting, shared backstory at a later point in a campaign is automatic. Players from all walks of life join together to beat the cult. At level 1 they all have a different backstory. At level 10 they a significant story (which is now backstory) from level 1-9. That is not to say they didn't come and go and do their own thing from time to time, but they are bonded with a shared experience in the game they played. [/QUOTE]

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