State of Mongoose 2008... with an interesting note about 4th edition

[malraux]

I don't know about regulations limiting telling the public the number of subscriptions. In the print version, they had to do it every year. But, besides that, look at all the websites that talk about the number of subscribers they have. WOW doesn't keep their subscription numbers secret, nor do most MMO's that I can think of. Heck, even En World on its front page trumpets that it has 70 k subscribers.

What SEC problems would there be in stating how many subscribers you have?

Same thing that stops them from releasing the number of PHB's sold, or any other internal info like that. There's a tough line where releasing that sort of info could be considered insider trading.

 

[evilgenius8000]

Indeed!

Also since everyone had to wait for months before 3rd party books hit the market, a good deal of impulse purchases never happened. By the time mongoose could sell their splat, plenty of folks had bought their 4E books and used them.

This means plenty of folks had said no thanks to 4E long before the mongoose books were available. Also DMs had plenty of time to understand the balances in the system to be apprehensive of splat material. Not to mention I hear some DM's had longstanding bans on Mongoose material.

Actually, just going by my copy of the 4e Quintessential Wizard, there's a good number of things that I probably wouldn't allow my players to use. Not that anyone will play a wizard -- they all have, though various message boards, heard/been convinced the wizard sucks.

 

[Darrin Drader]

what source is that?

He cites is in his report fairly early on.

 

[Hussar]

Same thing that stops them from releasing the number of PHB's sold, or any other internal info like that. There's a tough line where releasing that sort of info could be considered insider trading.

But, I don't understand. Every MMO out there that's on a subscription model, publicly states their subscriber populations. There's even websites that track that data.

Every print publication AFAIK, also makes their subscriptions publicly known.

I don't need an exact number, but, round numbers I can't see as anything but reasonable.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

They're a business, so that's a standard assumption; it's not just WotC being especially shady or anything. Of course the lack of any more such glowing statements for the most part since the core books came out might be more telling for its long-term success. Or for instance the German publisher of WotC's 4e books, Feder & Schwert, just announced the other day that they'll be dropping the line after the core three books. Plenty of stuff people can read into if they want, and likewise some folks will find a way to make any potential bad news into a glowing endorsement of WotC.

You can read into that that
a) most of their translations are mediocre to bad and
b) you can get the english corebooks for around 20 € while the german translations fall under the Buchpreisbindung and have to be sold for full cover price

 

[jdrakeh]

The one thing about Matt is that you can count on him to give it to you straight about the business.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. So how 'bout that Holy Grail?

 

[malraux]

But, I don't understand. Every MMO out there that's on a subscription model, publicly states their subscriber populations. There's even websites that track that data.

Every print publication AFAIK, also makes their subscriptions publicly known.

I don't need an exact number, but, round numbers I can't see as anything but reasonable.

A better way of putting it is that such info would have to come from the PR office, not just a random aside somewhere. Its certainly not mandatory for them to publish the info; I would assume that magazines do it for advertising reasons.

The main point is that businesses cannot give info like that to select groups.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Absolutely. You should distance yourself from whoever wrote utter rubbish like 3e Quintessential Wizard or Rogue.

Seriously, that guy was a total hack. I wonder what he's doing these days...

 

[Jack99]

Not only that, isn't Wraith Recon their only release? How can you call 4e an odd duck, when your product line consists of one book? And if you ask me, Wraith Recon doesn't seem like a mass appeal product. I'm not knocking it or anything like that, but I still don't have any idea what it is or what its trying to accomplish, and that isn't from a lack of trying either...

Edit: WAHOO! 2000 posts. Look out Crothian!

There is the Quintessential Wizard too...

Really? Still, that's only 2 products. I'd really love to hear from someone like Joe Goodman and get his take.

Goodman says his 4e stuff sells better than his 3.5 stuff did the last couple of years. I do not have time to find the link, but I have linked it before on Enworld, so a quick search should do the trick. Anyway, that's the only information he has shared.

Regarding 4e Mongoose products, I am not surprised. While a good book, Wraith Recon is a niche product if there ever was one. 4e Q. Wizard is just horrible broken and useless. Seriously. I have yet to see one positive review (and yet I still bought it ><) and that doesn't help sales on a book like that, considering it's predecessor's reputation.

 

[Obryn]

Absolutely. You should distance yourself from whoever wrote utter rubbish like 3e Quintessential Wizard or Rogue.

Oh, just because I like some of a guy's work doesn't mean I have to like all of it.

'sides, that was like 6 years ago. You learn from your mistakes.

-O