statting Klingons and Gargoyles

[Afrodyte]

I've a mind to replace orcs with something more akin to Disney's Gargoyles (without the wings and tail, and they don't turn to stone during the day - more like really big Klingons without the bumpy foreheads).

However, I run into a problem as far as giving them stats. They're stronger and tougher than humans, have heightened senses, and retain human-like mental capacity. In 4E, with races getting bonuses to two attributes, that's no problem. But in 3E, that's a little more . . . difficult.

How would you stat them if they didn't have the wings and tail and didn't turn to stone during the day?

 

[Voadam]

I've a mind to replace orcs with something more akin to Disney's Gargoyles (without the wings and tail, and they don't turn to stone during the day - more like really big Klingons without the bumpy foreheads).

However, I run into a problem as far as giving them stats. They're stronger and tougher than humans, have heightened senses, and retain human-like mental capacity. In 4E, with races getting bonuses to two attributes, that's no problem. But in 3E, that's a little more . . . difficult.

How would you stat them if they didn't have the wings and tail and didn't turn to stone during the day?

As monsters or as a PC race? As monsters only there is no problem giving them bonuses to both con and str and even a few HD of monstrous humanoid, which would make them about the level I feel is appropriate for those in the cartoon. Using a default gargoyle with no freeze ability, wings might balance against the human level social attributes (gargoyles are by default -4 on int and cha, twice as detrimented as orcs are) for CR calculations if you go with a Desdemona type spellcaster among them.

If you want to make them orc replacements that can be taken on at first level then you want a 1HD 1/2 CR bruiser, perhaps using hobgoblin stats but switching the +2 dex to str.

 

[Robert Ranting]

You might want to look at the Dracha race from Arcana Evolved, and the way that book handles more powerful races by allowing them to take optional racial levels beyond their first level starting package. The Dracha start off with a bonus to Con and a penalty to Cha, and wings that let them glide if they start from a high enough place, and can take racial levels to gain better bonuses to Str, Con, natural armor, and better flight maneuverability (say what you will, but the Gargoyles series seemed to make less of a deal about the fact that they glide rather than fly the longer the series went on...) Also, the optional racial level model allows for more physical variety among the Gargoyles, as Goliath and Demona most likely have all three racial levels as well as class levels, whereas a little guy like Lexington might only have his racial starting package and levels in a PC class. Essentially, the player decides whether to focus on a course of training in the form of a class, or on developing their racial qualities more fully to become a paragon of the race (like Goliath). Also, unlike Savage Species progressions, AE racial levels give a HD and a few skill points every level, just like a 3-level prestige class would, so you don't have the mess of high-LA races with insignificant HP, saves, or skills for their ECL.

My friends and I have often joked about running a d20 Gargoyles game using the dracha as a baseline. The only change I might make is to replace the bite attack the dracha gain for a claw (probably only 1d3).

Robert "At Least, That's How I Would Do It" Ranting

 

[Tewligan]

I've a mind to replace orcs with something more akin to Disney's Gargoyles (without the wings and tail, and they don't turn to stone during the day - more like really big Klingons without the bumpy foreheads).

However, I run into a problem as far as giving them stats. They're stronger and tougher than humans, have heightened senses, and retain human-like mental capacity. In 4E, with races getting bonuses to two attributes, that's no problem. But in 3E, that's a little more . . . difficult.

How would you stat them if they didn't have the wings and tail and didn't turn to stone during the day?

Why not just use the orc stats, just described differently? They're stronger and (I think) tougher than humans, the INT modifier is small enough that they're not outside the realm of human mental capacity, they have heightened senses in the form of infravision and scent (didn't DMG give the option of a Scent feat for orcs, or am I misremembering?) Did I misunderstand what you're looking for, maybe?

 

[Afrodyte]

Why not just use the orc stats, just described differently? They're stronger and (I think) tougher than humans, the INT modifier is small enough that they're not outside the realm of human mental capacity, they have heightened senses in the form of infravision and scent (didn't DMG give the option of a Scent feat for orcs, or am I misremembering?) Did I misunderstand what you're looking for, maybe?

You're on the right track. I think, though, that the orc stats penalize them too much. There's nothing in the series to indicate that the average gargoyle is below the human average in any of the mental stats. If, in 3.5E terms that gives them a LA, that's fine. I'd rather start high then trim down than try to beef up something that's too skimpy.

 

[Voadam]

Why not just use the orc stats, just described differently? They're stronger and (I think) tougher than humans, the INT modifier is small enough that they're not outside the realm of human mental capacity, they have heightened senses in the form of infravision and scent (didn't DMG give the option of a Scent feat for orcs, or am I misremembering?) Did I misunderstand what you're looking for, maybe?

Orcs are not tougher than humans

Orcs As Characters
Orc Traits (Ex)
Orcs possess the following racial traits.

+4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
An orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Light Sensitivity: Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Automatic Languages: Common, Orc. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Undercommon.
Favored Class: Barbarian.

 

[Tewligan]

Orcs are not tougher than humans

Ah, my bad - haven't flipped through 3.x for a while. Well, then I would split the +4 to STR into a +2 for STR and a +2 for CON. As for the INT...hm. I think if you don't want to take an INT hit, you may have to add an LA. How about DEX? Could you justify a -2 hit to DEX so that INT doesn't drop? I've never watched the cartoon, so I don't know if that fits at all with the idea.