Stealing

[Eridanis]

Scooting to the Brainstorming forum.

 

[s/LaSH]

Or you could have a story seed. The next time he goes to loot a store, someone else is already there. Someone more powerful. Someone who came laden up with anaesthesia magic (to take care of guards). And when the two meet, he gets captured and interrogated to find the location of the rest of his gold. Assuming he isn't carrying it then and now.

Then they take everything he has.

This could seem highly vindictive if you don't play it right. If the intruder is completely taken off guard by the PC, isn't waiting for them, etc etc, but still takes them down, all the better. It should seem like simple coincidence.

Then the case becomes 'get it all back'. Which is harder if your mysterious adversary is a prominent public figure with real defences, and that everybody respects. Will the truth out?

 

[Eltern]

Where does it explicitly say in the DMG that a wand cannot be higher than 4th level? The graph only goes up to four, sure, but....

Eltern

 

[FrankTrollman]

Where does it explicitly say in the DMG that a wand cannot be higher than 4th level? The graph only goes up to four, sure, but....

Eltern

The Craft Wand feat, page 92.

Of course, since a Staff can look like anything and costs exactly the same amount as a Wand would if it could be of higher than 4th level.... you actually can have a Wand of Teleport. It just requires the Craft Staff feat to make.

The item creation rules are 10 pounds of stupid in a five pound bag.

-Frank

 

[S'mon]

The problem is that I don't provide any challenge to him, -at all-, because I was/am having difficulties making reasonable sounding defenses that are of a good CR for the potential rewards. PC walks into a random storeroom at night and says he wants to steal things, I end up going "Derr...there's some rings" and he makes off with a handful of magic rings.

"My name is Eltern, and I am a Monty Haul Dm."

"random storeroom" - "handful of magic rings."

What's wrong with this picture?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

"My name is Eltern, and I am a Monty Haul Dm."

"random storeroom" - "handful of magic rings."

What's wrong with this picture?

Heh, heh, heh! Beaten to the punch!

Why aren't the rings in a safe?

Why are there no preventative magics in a shop carrying magic items?

If they have that much valuable stuff why is there no guard at night? (A guard is pretty cheap compared to how much the rings cost...)

Where is the wizard/cleric who made these items? (One quick casting of Locate Object later the solid waste hits the rotary impeller...)

Way, way too much value for the ease of getting the stuff.

The Auld Grump... and why am I being reminded of the Dungeons and Dragons movie?

 

[FrankTrollman]

I would point out, however, that a safe just isn't "safe" from an 8th level Rogue.

And no amount of Protective Magic makes things particularly "safe" from an 8th level Rogue either. The supposed cost of even a Firetrap (which is at best a nuisance to an 8th level Rogue) is 305 gold pieces. That's one third of the cost of a Ring of Resistance +1. And it won't work.

How much money do you honestly think people have lying around? If it's enough to pay for magical protections sufficient to even make an 8th level Rogue burp - it's probably enough money that some minor magic items just aren't that big of a deal.

I mean, I have a lock on my door - but I can break into my house. I have broken into my house when I left my key inside and such. And I've got a computer, a powerful calculator, and stereo equipment just lying around. The personal electronics I have that are not surrounded by voice-deactivated electrical fences are probably valued in the couple of thousands of dollars.

Why would any society that was rich enough to afford items of a similar value be handled any differently?

-Frank

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I would point out, however, that a safe just isn't "safe" from an 8th level Rogue.

And no amount of Protective Magic makes things particularly "safe" from an 8th level Rogue either. The supposed cost of even a Firetrap (which is at best a nuisance to an 8th level Rogue) is 305 gold pieces. That's one third of the cost of a Ring of Resistance +1. And it won't work.

How much money do you honestly think people have lying around? If it's enough to pay for magical protections sufficient to even make an 8th level Rogue burp - it's probably enough money that some minor magic items just aren't that big of a deal.

I mean, I have a lock on my door - but I can break into my house. I have broken into my house when I left my key inside and such. And I've got a computer, a powerful calculator, and stereo equipment just lying around. The personal electronics I have that are not surrounded by voice-deactivated electrical fences are probably valued in the couple of thousands of dollars.

Why would any society that was rich enough to afford items of a similar value be handled any differently?

-Frank

For the same reason the real world has safes even though there are safe crackers... Why in real life most jewelry stores and banks have burglar alarms and safes... Even though there are burglars.

He also said magical rings, not just one. so it's not just one Ring of Resistance +1.

With that much stuff they will take precautiouns, most likely equaling half to the full value of the merchandise on hand on a given day, expecting to have it make its worth over the life of the shop. (Again, that is how a real life jewelry store guages it's security.) So a shop with 5000 GP of magical treasure can be expected to have between 2500 and 5000 gp of protection, both magical and mundane.

They don't leave it just lying around.

A private citizen may not take those precautions, but if they have valuables many home owners insurance policies will require them to have at least a safe.

The Auld Grump... If it were that easy then there would be no stores...

Not a valid argument FT.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I hope this is in the correct forum, if not, could a Mod move it, please?

In my campaign that I DM I have a player that has dumped a lot of skill points into move silently, bluff, hide, diplomancy, tumble, and use magic device (not disable device) and is going all willy nilly stealing things from stores, then selling them to other stores, using his diplomancy and bluff skill to get the best price possible. At the present time he is -significantly- ahead in net worth compared to the other characters. <Edit>

Suggestions?

Alright. Your not giving us professional rat bastards some of the "Critical, Need to Know" information, so my advice at this point is limited as a result.

As I understand the situation, you have a character who is playing at a "Right Angle" to what you are prepared to do. He is not directly opposing the current plotline, but he is not helping it along either. You would like to regain control of the situation.

First, I must congratulate your player though. He has taken a pretty effective approach to playing the game. Most players are content to just sit back and take the plot as its handed to them. Initiative like that must be rewarded.

One of your posts mentioned that you just arent able to create plausible challenges for this player. You have also stated that you want the Theives guild to land hard on him for pissing in their pool. What I suggest is throwing together an adventure that exploits this characters tendencies.

Your theif has proven himself to be very proficient. I am fairly sure that he has become known to various fences. Assuming the theives guild is on to him is a given. But rather then send out a hit squad, I think that the guild would have a better plan.

Were this my game, the theives guild would approach your player and hire him to perform a job. Assuming the rest of the party is morally flexible enough to aid in this, it is a simple adventure hook. The guild will want the theif to set up a big score for them. How about knocking off someting on the order of one of the following targets?

1) The royal treasury or mint (steal money. Lots of it).
2) The kingdoms high church (religious icon of great importance / little power)
3) The royal dungeons (prison break).
4) The royal harem (kidnapping)
5) The royal crypt (grave robbing)
6) A powerful wizards lab (theft of a magic item).

Any one of these targets would plausibly have a number of traps and guards for protection. I would use very strong re-enforced doors with traps that lock people in (easier to kill when they cannot flee), borrowing a great deal of material from the traps section of Traps and Treachery, and otherwise making the challenge worth while.

But wait, theres more! Just because the guild has hired your player does not meant they want him to succeed. Or even to survive the attempt. Here are a couple of ways the guild can screw your theif and still come out ahead.

1) The royal treasury or mint:
The guild arranges to have the royal guards come down on the theif once he is inside. As the players fight their way out, the guild will have a group of their men in guard uniforms make off with the gold. Player is locked up or killed, guild gets assload of money.

2) The kingdoms high church (religious icon of great importance / little power).
The guild wants the players to bring them the item. They just do not tell the player about the curse that will befall him for defiling the gods altar. Guild gets to sell the religious item, the player gets the curse.

3) The royal dungeons (prison break).
The guild has the players break out a prisoner who was going to compromise the guild. Upon getting him out, they kill the prisoner, and pin the murder on the PC's.

4) The royal harem (kidnapping)
The guild really wants to assasinate the heir to the throne. A more competent assassin breaks in and kills the prince while the PC's make off with the woman. The woman will tell the authorities that the PC's abucted her and murdered the Prince. Guild gets someone they want killed, and do not have to worry about the kingdom coming down directly on them for it.

5) The royal crypt (grave robbing)
This can work out pretty much the same way as the church robbing. The guild gets the goods, and the PC's get the curse. In this case, the curse could very well be the angry spirits of kings past that rise up to hunt down the players.

6) The wizards lab (theft of a magic item).
There is no reason for the guild to be particularly honest about the wizard that the players are going to rob. The wizard is simply bizzarly powerful. I am thinking about 8 levels beyond the players level range. The players get to spring all the traps and injure the wizard a bit. The guild does mop up.

A few rewards like that for your theif player will likely be the end of him.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Hunter]

Your player sounds very innovative and imaginative with his tactics. One should not penalize a player only because he takes advantage of the rules and maximizes his ingenuity.
A possible way to counter him is perhaps indirectly.
Get into the role playing based on his actions. One suggestion would be for your NPC Thieves Guild and/or Town Guard or possibly a NPC character party hired by robbed merchants to find and capture( not kill him. They want to divulge his secrets. To find out how he does it).
Enable the character to see (or just role play act out the reaction/actions/decisions in front of your players)the reactions of the victims and NPCs affected as they are robbed and as they track down his trail. (Possibly from his stolen goods).
Also the underworld talks amongst each other and he may have left something ( a clue) or talked with someone (who may know a clue). Thus they begin to try to track him down. As they do you will find your player getting much satisfaction and enjoyment watching the NPCs trip over themselves or just miss him as he narrowly escapes with the goods!

When the trail begins to run dry and the NPCs seem stuck, not knowing what else to try, I think you will find your player (who is enjoying himself immensely watching these people follow/chase/fail) make more daring burglaries/thefts in order to challenge himself (as a player) and keep the chase alive.

This will not only enrich your game with an ongoing storyline but as it escalates you may find your player not minding actually getting caught!!!!! (When he is finally apprehended).

You may find him getting into the story and role playing his suffering as he is brought into chains-lol!! And pilloried!
Ah, what jest! What fun!

He could even be interviewed/interrogated in order to glean his secrets in prison. You could have great role playing with this as he tries to escape. Possibly even enamouring a young attractive NPC (whether she is a fellow thief/town guard/ noble lady he robbed-the whole victim/lover storyline with connections to see prisoners.

I have often witnessed quiet players start a game of D&D not fully understanding the art of role playing but well acquainted with the rules. Once they move about (so to speak) in the campaign and start succeeding with their skills/abilities I have seen them change suddenly and begin to talk and role play with the various inhabitants of one's locale, city, town, dungeon whatever. Suddenly they are captivated!

I believe it is very important not to oppose the player by matching intellects. Like chess or whatever.
As DM you have godlike abilities so it is far from even.
He is reacting in your world. If you wish to control his actions react to them but don't suddenly create something that will instantly stop his innovative burglaries.

He is a player to be coveted and groomed for higher levels of game...

~H