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<blockquote data-quote="Xorn" data-source="post: 4285293" data-attributes="member: 61231">I'll bet my way (which recognizes that Stealth avoids notice, not removes it) still plays faster.And it's not a passive check if the target is LOOKING at you when you try to hide (Opposed Checks).&nbsp; It would then be your active vs their active.&nbsp; If you succeed in hiding, then you would roll your active at the end of the turn vs their passive.&nbsp; Then on their turn for a minor they would roll their active vs your last roll to see if they can get a hint to where you are.&nbsp; (Targeting What You Can't See).I have a rogue and ranger stealthing behind cover, and a pair of slingers doing the same across the room.&nbsp; So on the rogues turn, that's one roll vs five enemy rolls, plus any that he hid from make active checks (for a minor action) on their turn.&nbsp; If he hides half the time (unlikely, he'll probably hide from all of them, look at kobold perception) then each will make an active check on their turn (so they can call it out as a free action).&nbsp; So that's 11 rolls, for the rogue.&nbsp; Then 11 more for the ranger.&nbsp; The slingers, doing the same thing, will generate a minimum of 6 rolls (their roll vs 5 characters) and since it's likely the kobolds will at least hide from the non-perception trained people, probably 3 more rolls each during the player turns.Roughly 40 rolls.&nbsp; In a round.Yeah.&nbsp; No thanks.&nbsp; Stealth avoids notice.&nbsp; If it was supposed to immediately hide you when someone is looking at you, it would read, &quot;You BECOME hidden.&quot;It allows you to REMAIN hidden.&nbsp; Have to be hidden first, though.What you're describing is playing hide-n-seek in the living room, but the person counting doesn't close their eyes.&nbsp; But if you want to run stealth like that, knock yourself out.It's just like the thread on DDI, where a customer service rep said that if you have cover/concealment, you can roll stealth and sneak attack immediately.&nbsp; (He called it stealthily attacking--that's right, stealthily doing something that breaks stealth.)That means most 1st level rogues will sneak attack 95% of the time from range against kobolds, every round.&nbsp; Why bother making them check?&nbsp; Why not just say if you are adjacent to cover you get to sneak attack anyone you like?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Xorn, post: 4285293, member: 61231"] I'll bet my way (which recognizes that Stealth [i]avoids[/i] notice, not removes it) still plays faster. And it's not a passive check if the target is LOOKING at you when you try to hide (Opposed Checks). It would then be your active vs their active. If you succeed in hiding, then you would roll your active at the end of the turn vs their passive. Then on their turn for a minor they would roll their active vs your last roll to see if they can get a hint to where you are. (Targeting What You Can't See). I have a rogue and ranger stealthing behind cover, and a pair of slingers doing the same across the room. So on the rogues turn, that's one roll vs five enemy rolls, plus any that he hid from make active checks (for a minor action) on their turn. If he hides half the time (unlikely, he'll probably hide from all of them, look at kobold perception) then each will make an active check on their turn (so they can call it out as a free action). So that's 11 rolls, for the rogue. Then 11 more for the ranger. The slingers, doing the same thing, will generate a minimum of 6 rolls (their roll vs 5 characters) and since it's likely the kobolds will at least hide from the non-perception trained people, probably 3 more rolls each during the player turns. Roughly 40 rolls. In a round. Yeah. No thanks. Stealth [i]avoids[/i] notice. If it was supposed to immediately hide you when someone is looking at you, it would read, "You BECOME hidden." It allows you to REMAIN hidden. Have to be hidden first, though. What you're describing is playing hide-n-seek in the living room, but the person counting doesn't close their eyes. But if you want to run stealth like that, knock yourself out. It's just like the thread on DDI, where a customer service rep said that if you have cover/concealment, you can roll stealth and sneak attack immediately. (He called it stealthily attacking--that's right, stealthily doing something that breaks stealth.) That means most 1st level rogues will sneak attack 95% of the time from range against kobolds, every round. Why bother making them check? Why not just say if you are adjacent to cover you get to sneak attack anyone you like? [/QUOTE]

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