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<blockquote data-quote="zlorf" data-source="post: 4292926" data-attributes="member: 7955">In your scenario below, just get all /some of the enemies roll for perception as a standard action, there may be a chance that they see the rogue in the bush, even if they didnt during there active perception.ie Rogue throws dagger from bush and get CA on orc. 6 other orcs go, hey where did that come from, one makes its perception check as a standard action and yell &quot;From the bush, charge!!!&quot;ZQuote:And here we have the root of the problem.&nbsp; I think it's fine if the rogue is having to constantly shift and move to avoid being seen. It paints the picture of skilled sniper in my head.&nbsp; The problem is the fact that stealth can be used as a part of any non-revealing action; standard, movement or minor.&nbsp; Depending on the group this can be interpreted a large number of different ways.&nbsp; The way I see it intended, a rogue (or anybody) can sit in a single bush in the middle of a battlefield (how NOT to be seen) can pick his nose stealthily as a minor action and attack all day with combat advantage, whether or not he's surrounded by hostiles in melee.Now I have a hard time believing R&amp;D didn't playtest the sh..poop out of this, and I would think they truly believe this is balanced.&nbsp; I'm not 100% sure as I've yet to play an actual game with the released rules.&nbsp; So I'm willing to try it out and see how it goes.When I try to think of it practically it's stupid, and the more I think of it the more I like Xorn's idea of rogues having to get total concealment or lose line of sight in order to effectively re-stealth.&nbsp; Otherwise there's no reason not to make a sniper, and let's frigging face it, that role is intended for the ranger.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="zlorf, post: 4292926, member: 7955"] In your scenario below, just get all /some of the enemies roll for perception as a standard action, there may be a chance that they see the rogue in the bush, even if they didnt during there active perception. ie Rogue throws dagger from bush and get CA on orc. 6 other orcs go, hey where did that come from, one makes its perception check as a standard action and yell "From the bush, charge!!!" Z Quote: And here we have the root of the problem. I think it's fine if the rogue is having to constantly shift and move to avoid being seen. It paints the picture of skilled sniper in my head. The problem is the fact that stealth can be used as a part of any non-revealing action; standard, movement or minor. Depending on the group this can be interpreted a large number of different ways. The way I see it intended, a rogue (or anybody) can sit in a single bush in the middle of a battlefield (how NOT to be seen) can pick his nose stealthily as a minor action and attack all day with combat advantage, whether or not he's surrounded by hostiles in melee. Now I have a hard time believing R&D didn't playtest the sh..poop out of this, and I would think they truly believe this is balanced. I'm not 100% sure as I've yet to play an actual game with the released rules. So I'm willing to try it out and see how it goes. When I try to think of it practically it's stupid, and the more I think of it the more I like Xorn's idea of rogues having to get total concealment or lose line of sight in order to effectively re-stealth. Otherwise there's no reason not to make a sniper, and let's frigging face it, that role is intended for the ranger. [/QUOTE]

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