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<blockquote data-quote="Machus" data-source="post: 4355660" data-attributes="member: 72271">So by your rule, players who want to use stealth to gain a simple combat advantage (not complete surprise) need to:&nbsp;1. Obtain total concealment (breaking LOS)2. Then obtain concealment/cover3. Then they can attempt a stealth check&nbsp;That's complete and total surprise at this point. That's far and away better than a simple combat advantage. &nbsp;Why not just get the entire party to do it then get a free surprise round? To me you're making a house rule for stealth-CA, making it as difficult as it is to get a surprise round. &nbsp;Determine surprise: The DM determines whether any combatants are surprised. If any combatants notice enemy combatants without being noticed in return, the aware combatants gain a surprise round.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Machus, post: 4355660, member: 72271"] So by your rule, players who want to use stealth to gain a simple combat advantage (not complete surprise) need to: 1. Obtain total concealment (breaking LOS) 2. Then obtain concealment/cover 3. Then they can attempt a stealth check That's complete and total surprise at this point. That's far and away better than a simple combat advantage. Why not just get the entire party to do it then get a free surprise round? To me you're making a house rule for stealth-CA, making it as difficult as it is to get a surprise round. [B][FONT=MentorStd-Bold][SIZE=2][I]Determine surprise: [/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [LEFT][FONT=MentorStd][SIZE=2][I]The DM determines whether any combatants are surprised. If any combatants notice enemy combatants without being noticed in return, the aware combatants gain a surprise round.[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]

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