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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 4356858" data-attributes="member: 71699">Ah. In that case I may have misunderstood you because I have not been proposing making the RAW on PHB178 more consistent for your players WRT stealth by recording a ruling of 'needing total concealment'. We have a mutual misunderstanding there. What I have been proposing as a means to make the RAW on PHB178 more consistent for your players, taking into account that Cover or Concealment have been clarified by CSR to not mean that a stealth check must be granted, is that once your enemies are aware of you, then in order to regain hiding you have to do something other than just stay put and rub your rabbits foot. That something is to get into a new position unobserved or find a way to make them think you aren't still where you were. I think this is the house rule you are objecting to. I've also made it clear that a Bluff, or a distraction, would work equally well, and elsewhere I posted the example you give using Teleport. Teleport can get you to a position literally unobserved, such as your example of a position behind your enemies, since you do not pass through the intervening squares.   I have no issue with cover or concealment. The RAW is clear. Having cover or concealment alone is not necessarily sufficient to be granted a stealth check. I feel an abundance of other RAW is highly suggestive that you need to do something cunning to get there unobserved. Why would you need Shadow Stride at all, if you can simply move from one hidden position, across clear enemy lines of sight, and into any cover and regain stealth? As you say, it is the defensive stacking that I mind. CA? Rogues should have it nearly every turn. I also mind something that others don't seem to, which is granting lots of crummy dice rolls to players who aren't rogues and might not even have stealth trained. Some feel their players will just go along with them and ignore the risk free roll for a fantastic defensive advantage. They feel it's okay that, that can spin of several more rolls per turn as enemies have to take minor actions to respot them. So if all you want is Assassins to get CA--which we agree on--this is one heck of a painful way to grant it. Unless you say that stealth doesn't do anything more than give CA... which I can't see being very intuitive in terms of understanding the RAW. -vk</blockquote>

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