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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the_redbeard" data-source="post: 4356892" data-attributes="member: 22644">LOL.Mighty big of you to be so generous and not even try to find what was wrong in my LITERAL approach.  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" />Awareness/Notice/HideYou can be aware that someone is around without knowing where they are.Check out the 'targeting what you can't see' rules for explicit demonstration.  Know that they are out there - but not where.Awareness as prohibitive for stealth and/or combat awareness:IF awareness prohibited stealth, why isn't it listed as prohibitive or for unawareness as a requirement?Concealment specifically is a condition where the perceiver can SEE the STEALTHER... yet this allows stealth.IF awareness prohibited combat advantage, why is only unawareness listed as one of many different conditions granting combat advantage?Do you have answers to those questions?Or are you going to just avoid the issue again?Your supporting secondary info, re: Total concealment:Total concealment penalizes the perception check by 10 (!) making it very effective for even poor stealthers.It's a great tactic if you can get it - +10!  I'll have to remember it.  As it is advisable no matter our interpretation, I don't think it is necessarily supporting either side.Here's something:Gnome Arcanist power:Aura of Illusion (Illusion) aura 5; the gnome arcanist and all alliesin the aura gain concealment and can hide in the aura.Yes, it does mention that is uses the Aura until ready to attack (which I'm sure you'll take as supporting your argument.)  Why not after?  Because it is a choice: grant my allies a chance for combat advantage, or attack.And again, no limit on when this can be used.  In the power description, it is straight: concealment->hide, no mention of when it can be used.  Sounds like my interpretation.Here's Mike Mearls again:Why, why would it be important to take out the high perception monsters?  Because later in the combat, it will be easier to stealth!  The monsters will surely know you are there, combat has started, but stealth is still a good thing  - an important tactic - to use.No reason to take out the high perception monsters after a combat has started otherwise.</blockquote>

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