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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xorn" data-source="post: 4357016" data-attributes="member: 61231">I don't know if you were busy being offended that I didn't say, "Oh my god, you're right!" but what I specifically said that I would not say you're wrong, because I can't.  Why don't I point out that no one has addressed anything about the advised tactics for creatures using stealth YET.How is me bolding "AVOID notice, unheard and unseen" and different than you bolding "avoid notice UNHEARD and UNSEEN"?  I read that if you don't AVOID notice, you are not unheard and unseen.  I don't read REMOVE notice anywhere.  There difference between us is I'm NOT trying to tell you that you're way is wrong.  If I wanted to use you're ruling, I could present plenty of arguments to support it--but I can't clearly refute that the way I suggest is wrong.You seem to think you can, but restating evidence towards your idea over and over and over and over and over.  I can't disprove your side, and I'm not trying to.  I can make points that support both sides, and I think I can make more points to myself that support my side more than yours.  But I still don't think either of us is wrong.Why does Combat Advantage only direct you to Stealth under "Unaware of you (page 188)" and only direct you to Concealment for "Unable to see the attacker (page 281)"?  That is all I need to read to be done with why I'm going with my way.I can further feel good about myself as a person for choosing my way after seeing that the cause of being unheard and unseen is not being noticed--which in my gut says I'm reading the whole sentence, not getting tunnel vision on what's listed after the cause.CAUSE (You avoid notice,) --> EFFECT (unheard and hidden from view.)Page 188 states clearing that I get Combat Advantage from stealth when the target isn't aware of me.  (I interpret that to mean the reason they printed that blurb about Combat Advantage there is because that is how they intended for Stealth to grant combat advantage.)But one more time--I can understand and I can't disprove the logic that you're using.  (Nor do I desire to.)That's how I reached my decision about Stealth, combined with the opinions of my table, on how it should work.  I promise you that you can suggest I'm refusing to disprove your logic all you like (and you're correct, though I stated I couldn't more times than I should need to), but you are as important as fly<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> on my window compared to the players at my table.So the way I want to run things is carved in stone and carried down from the mountain weeks ago--unless I get an email from Mearls today, quoting this post right here, that says, "Sorry J, but camp #1 is correct, and we accidentally messed up the tactics for every encounter we've published."The CSRs can say whatever they like (which is obvious with the glaring contradictions they have with themselves), and they are just giving us their interpretations of the rules, too.The moment I read that Combat Advantage indicates you only look at Stealth rules when determining if the target is aware of you, I'm done.  If I decided that it did apply, then I would start leaning towards Combat Advantage with just Cover/Concealment = Yes, but I didn't cross that first hurdle.I feel better about my choice (on a personal level, not because it proves you wrong) because after reading Kobold Hall, Keep on the Shadowfell, Heathen, and Sleeping in the Tomb of Dreams now, they seem to support my ideas of Stealth & Combat Advantage and how they work.</blockquote>

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