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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tonester" data-source="post: 4358325" data-attributes="member: 71788">Fortunately, I read all of your posts and if you had provided the same courtesy to me, you would have seen that I actually ended up addressing exactly what you claim I didn't address - it was just down a bit further since I wrote the top half prior to reading all of your stuff and then edited/added the bottom after giving you the benefit of the doubt and re-reading your latest posts.That would be a house rule in my eyes since Concealment OR Cover OR Unaware = "appropriate situation" according to the PHB.  The great thing about this game, however, is that you CAN change it however you like.  Like I've said before, if your system works for you and your players are happy with it... awesome.  Some of us are more interested in figuring out what was intended so we debate based on things as they are written... not interpreted. Not sure what you mean by this.  CA has nothing to do with defense.  If you have CA against an opponent, you get +2 to hit and anything else related to your class skills and having CA.  Once you attack, you break stealth, and thus, have no defensive bonuses from it.  However, if you started your turn behind cover, you could attack, and then try to restealth behind the cover.  If you succeed, then yes, you would have defensive bonuses from stealthing in addition to the cover against any enemies who failed their passive checks.  A monster can, on its turn, actively try to perceive you.  Depending on how well/poorly it succeeds/fails the active check, it can still attack you (or a square as a guess) with other penalties or bonuses accordingly. The only way a rogue can stealth, sneak attack, stealth, sneak attack, etc is if A) the rogue is doing so from behind cover or within constant concealment or B) the rogue spends an action point.  Again, there is nothing wrong with this - it is how the class (along with the ranger and even the warlock) were designed.  The rules are very clear with regards to cover, concealment, and stealth, imo. It isn't for constant CA, and I don't believe anyone here has made any claims close to that.  A melee rogue, at best, could use stealth every other round to gain CA unless it spends an AP... and even that is a once per encounter shot.  However, as previously stated, it is possible to do CA nearly every round if the rogue is behind cover or within concealment.  In these instances, a monster trying to out-range the rogue (or ranger or constantly moving warlock) is probably playing very stupidly since it would most likely have to attack the square the monster THINKS the rogue/ranger/warlock is in (at a huge penalty) or try to advance to a better position that doesn't afford the rogue/ranger/warlock cover or concealment.  Again - there is nothing wrong with this imo. Nothing in the rules say a Stealth check should always be granted.  Its only granted if A) The player has cover or B) The player has concealment or C) The monster is distracted (which can only be done one way that I'm aware of in combat) or D) The monster is already unaware of the player.  All of those don't have to hold true.... only 1 of them.  And you are correct, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a player who meets any of those conditions to at least try a stealth check.  As a DM, I probably wouldn't allow it unless the player was trained in Stealth because it isn't very RP'ish, but that is just me.  The rules don't state otherwise. If a character wants to try and stealth on their turn, its 1 roll on their turn.  This roll is compared immediately against the BEST passive perception of whatever monster/check is applicable.  If that check succeeds, then they are stealthed until a monster, on its turn, decides to actively seek out the rogue.  If it fails, then by communication, then all monsters are aware.  And unless you have every monster wanting to interact with the stealther on a monster's given turn, it isn't that many active perception checks either (maybe 1 or 2 at most per round for monsters). If you are trained in stealth, have a high dex, wear light armor, etc (i.e. can probably stealth pretty well), then you SHOULD be doing this whenever possible - it is what your class was meant to do.  That being said - If you are a plate-wearing Dwarf Paladin untrained in stealth and with an 8 dex, then you might piss your groupmates off if you try to stealth every time you duck behind a wall.  But for Warlocks, Rogues, and Rangers.... I expect them to make Stealth checks nearly every round and see nothing wrong with it at all - it is a part of their class design.</blockquote>

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