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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tonester" data-source="post: 4358707" data-attributes="member: 71788">Well, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.  I interpret "Success:  You go unnoticed, unseen, and unheard" from your observers as:A) They can't see youB) They can't hear youC) They aren't aware of you or your locationI.E.  You are totally concealed from them and if ANY of them want to, on their own turn, take some action against you, they must first use a minor action to try and ACTIVELY perceive you... or at the very least, gain some clue as to your general direction for a good guess attack.Concealment, p.281The target is in a lightly obscured square or in a heavily obscured square but adjacent to you.Total Concealment, p.281You can't see the target.The target is invisible, in a totally obscured square, or in a heavily obscured square and not adjacent to you.Personally, I don't know how you can state that Shadow Walk (which grants concealment) doesn't actually make the square the player is in become "lightly obscured or heavily obscured if its adjacent to you" but then say Stealthing Successfully (i.e. becoming unseen, unheard, and unnoticed) isn't the same as "you can't see the target."I mean... which is it?  Shadow Walk doesn't specifically state it makes a square obscure, but it does say it grants concealment while Stealthing makes you unseen, but not Totally Concealed?  Seems like people get to pick and chose the leaps they make while ignoring the leaps that other people make.Do you really read the rules that differently?  It seems so clear to me personally.  And, to be honest, if that is the only thing you have a problem with from everything I posted... I can live with that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I actually might agree with you that stealthing doesn't grant total concealment.... if it weren't for the fact that you need to maintain cover/concealment in order to remain stealthed.  That is what makes me think it grants total concealment just as much as the definition.If a player stealths successfully on a move action behind a pillar and there are several pillars, does a monster suffer no penalty other than -2 for cover on an attack roll?  How if it doesn't even know which pillar they are behind?  So, did the player stealth there successfully or not?  Or, did they stealth successfully on the move, but then when they showed up at the pillar, they made a huge sound like, 'Phew! Glad I made it' and gave themself away?  No.  The monster, if played correctly by a DM, would make a semi-random/best guess attempt at which pillar the rogue would be behind based on: Perception check, speed, other pillars' distance from the last area the rogue was spotted, etc.  Then, the role-playing DM who is trying to get into the mind of the monster would pick a square to attack.  But, if there is only 1 pillar, then obviously the guessing games becomes easier.... as it should be.But... until official word, we'll agree to disagree.  I'm actually anxious to see what they say.</blockquote>

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