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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6293241" data-attributes="member: 1465">In case b: you can be hidden in a bush or under foliage etc., but just because someone is told you are hidden in that bush, doesn't mean he can already see you. If it's a very clear location (small bush, behind a specific object), he might shoot there and hit you anyway (in 3e he'd have penalties however, even if targetting the correct location, if you are technically not visible). Furthermore, if you let one creature who wins its perception check immediately negate everybody's else failure at that perception checks, this is not going to work well at all for anybody who wants to use hiding as a tactic.The problem with c is that, if you rule that once out of the shadows you are immediately no longer hiding and ranged attack don't work as well, then you can just scrap the idea of attacking from hidden from the game. (which you can do, if you like) However, in general I agree that ranged sneak attacks don't feel completely right, at least not without a range limit.If you still want the game to have an option to attack from a hidden position, you have to rule that attacking reveals your position after your attack. You can explain that in terms of the fact that in the middle of a combat everything happens more or less simultaneously, and starting from hidden is enough to make the target unable to react quickly and defend at his best. With the same idea in mind, in the midst of a combat the idea that someone spots you and can inform everybody else exactly where you are, and immediately they all see you, becomes not so realistic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6293241, member: 1465"] In case b: you can be hidden in a bush or under foliage etc., but just because someone is told you are hidden [I]in that bush[/I], doesn't mean he can already see you. If it's a very clear location (small bush, behind a specific object), he might shoot there and hit you anyway (in 3e he'd have penalties however, even if targetting the correct location, if you are technically not visible). Furthermore, if you let one creature who wins its perception check immediately negate everybody's else failure at that perception checks, this is not going to work well at all for anybody who wants to use hiding as a tactic. The problem with c is that, if you rule that once out of the shadows you are [I]immediately[/I] no longer hiding and ranged attack don't work as well, then you can just scrap the idea of attacking from hidden from the game. (which you can do, if you like) However, in general I agree that ranged sneak attacks don't feel completely right, at least not without a range limit. If you still want the game to have an option to attack from a hidden position, you have to rule that attacking reveals your position [I]after[/I] your attack. You can explain that in terms of the fact that [I]in the middle of a combat[/I] everything happens more or less simultaneously, and starting from hidden is enough to make the target unable to react quickly and defend at his best. With the same idea in mind, in the midst of a combat the idea that someone spots you and can inform everybody else exactly where you are, and immediately they all see you, becomes not so realistic. [/QUOTE]

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