D&D 5E Stealthy Spellcasting in 5e

[Saeviomagy]

"How loud" is a quality called volume.
Pitch is the frequency of a sound
Resonance is simply how deeply you are breathing while speaking or singing
Chanting is a rhythmic speaking or singing of words.

Volume is not mentioned at all in the spellcasting rules. There is literally no guidance, implied or otherwise.

The argument that sorcerers should have this as an exclusive bailiwick is ridiculous. Its equivalent to saying that only charlatans with the actor skill can try to pretend to be someone else.

 

[MoonSong]

The argument that sorcerers should have this as an exclusive bailiwick is ridiculous. Its equivalent to saying that only charlatans with the actor skill can try to pretend to be someone else.

The difference is, one is an optional feat that grants extra options on something everybody can already do. The other one is a core feature of the class that was built on it. If you compare the sorcerer with the two classes it resembles the most, sorcerers lose either the ability to learn any spell, a free spell recovery option and a bunch of longterm utility spells (from wizard) or a bunch of spells known, worse proficiencies and many utility spells (from bard) anyway the class has a limited overall spell versatility.

The ability to cast spells without being noticed is part of the class schtick, the spell list was balanced on the existence of this class feature, that is why sorcerers lack some of the spells that would make for the most broken combos. Making it so a core part of the class is weakened or rendered irrelevant hurts the class.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The difference is, one is an optional feat that grants extra options on something everybody can already do. The other one is a core feature of the class that was built on it.

The ability to cast spells without being noticed is part of the class schtick, the spell list was balanced on the existence of this class feature, that is why sorcerers lack some of the spells that would make for the most broken combos. Making it so a core part of the class is weakened or rendered irrelevant hurts the class.

Rubbish. The metamagic allows you to cast in a silence spell or underwater with your hands bound and unnoticed without a roll. AND that is roughly only 1/9th of the class feature.

Also take a look at the assassin 13th level feature. No way am I going to preclude all characters from impersonation just because assassins get something better.

 

[SkidAce]

A sorcerer seems to be guaranteed success wit the meta magic.

The other casters risk failing a roll.

Seems right.

 

[Psikerlord#]

i allow sneaky spellcasting like sneaky stabbing, depends on situation, and a check will be involved. Sorcerors on the other hand can auto do it with subtle spell. Everyone wins.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I can't remember the particular book again but the only real guidance I've seen in ANY edition about how loud spells are was one book in 3.5e. I'm working from memory here...someone else with the book who can remember where it comes from should chime in and correct me with real numbers.

However, it said that all spellcasting was immediately recognizable as spellcasting from something like 60 feet away because the somatic components were so drastic, obvious, and intricate that anyone looking at you knew it was a spell. Also, the verbal components needed to be loud enough to be heard or the spell didn't work properly. It allowed you a skill check to reduce the range that spellcasting could be identified at to 15 feet or something like that. But it was impossible to make spellcasting more subtle than that without metamagic.

I still use these as general guidelines when determining how obvious casting is in 5e, given no real other guidance on the topic in the 5e books.

 

[77IM]

For a totally silent stealth-casting, that seems pretty powerful, so I'd fall back on my simple wager system: The PC makes a check to get what they want, but on a failure they get a consequence just as bad. In this case, I'd allow a DC 15 spellcasting ability check to modify the spell so that you can cast it without a verbal component; but on a failure, not only do you make a sound, but you also lose the spell being cast! That should be sufficient disincentive so that it doesn't step on the sorcerer's toes, but still be a viable option if people want to accept that risk.

 

[Kalshane]

For a totally silent stealth-casting, that seems pretty powerful, so I'd fall back on my simple wager system: The PC makes a check to get what they want, but on a failure they get a consequence just as bad. In this case, I'd allow a DC 15 spellcasting ability check to modify the spell so that you can cast it without a verbal component; but on a failure, not only do you make a sound, but you also lose the spell being cast! That should be sufficient disincentive so that it doesn't step on the sorcerer's toes, but still be a viable option if people want to accept that risk.

That might be an interesting way to adjudicate it. Make the relevant check to disguise your spell and another check to not flub it up while trying to cast in a non-standard fashion.

I'd still leave the feat option in there for folks who want a guaranteed method of casting on the sly.

 

[DMZ2112]

I gave this issue some thought not long ago and posted my ideas and results here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?412279-True-Counterspelling

The True Counterspelling rule is /very specific/ to spell duels, however, because all the opponents are trying to do is disguise the /nature/ of the spell being cast, not that any spell at all is being cast. I think this is an important distinction.

For a totally silent stealth-casting, that seems pretty powerful, so I'd fall back on my simple wager system: The PC makes a check to get what they want, but on a failure they get a consequence just as bad.

This feels like a critical failure result to me, rather than the consequence of a standard failure.

In this case, I'd allow a DC 15 spellcasting ability check to modify the spell so that you can cast it without a verbal component;

If you're trying to throw off a counterspell, I think it makes sense to use Arcana to weird the somatic and verbal components. But if you're trying to avoid an arrow in the gob, completely concealing the fact that you are casting /at all/ is an entirely different and more challenging issue.

When I designed True Counterspelling, I specifically wanted it to be something that a classically trained wizard would be good at, because that made sense. But I'm not sure total casting concealment falls under the same aegis. I picture rooms full of wizards practicing the same somatic gestures over and over, like a tai chi form, and instructors shouting at pupils to "enunciate your vowels" and "chant from the diaphragm." Any ability they have to disguise their spells, yes, comes from their understanding of magic.

Bards, sorcerers, and warlocks obviously don't have this baggage, but even -- or especially -- in their case, I don't feel like Arcana is the right choice for spell stealth. It's not about academia, it's about being sneaky.

Deception is the obvious go-to skill here, but I don't think Charisma is the appropriate stat. It feels more like a Dexterity problem to me, although I realize the inherent shortcomings of the Sleight of Hand skill in this regard. So maybe Dexterity+Deception? It makes sense that being good at this would require a very specific ability set.

And then, it's important to note that an opposing /caster/, if he notices the surreptitious casting, is going to know the spell unless a /further/ Arcana check is made. This is a nuanced thing, but I kind of like it.

but on a failure, not only do you make a sound, but you also lose the spell being cast!

I choose to interpret this as, "and the wizard farts apocalyptically."

That should be sufficient disincentive so that it doesn't step on the sorcerer's toes, but still be a viable option if people want to accept that risk.

I think the Wizard ought to step on the Sorcerer's toes as often as possible. What's the point of playing The Man if you ain't keepin' people down?

 

[SkidAce]

Arcana could still work, as it would be a case of "how low can I make these sounds and still resonate with the flame of acheron?"