Stocking up on cheap magic

[Storyteller01]

I'm all for magic control, but if any of you want to have a laugh about the subject, get the book 'Vengance Fantastic'. It's a collection of short stories, and while I forget the name of the particualr story, it isn't hard to find. Look for the only one that's even remotely based on D&D!

Plot: Noble girl turned thief (when she ran away) returns to her home with baby and 'husband' (an assassin, naturally) in tow. Mission: Get revenge on family by securing the baby's inheritance.

Matron of the family calls for a 'healing potion from the pantry' at least three times in the story!.

 

[Storyteller01]

Sure, they can go into town and comission 30 wands of cure light wounds, then wait while the cleric finds time to make them. Then he has to take the time to make them, one at a time. In my games most magic items are not bought 'off the shelf' in large quantities, and I pay attention to the amount of stuff that can be purchased using the handy dandy rules in the DMG.

I would use time as the limiting factor.

The Auld Grump, who has never had a player try this...

Ditto. I tend to treat magic as a limited commodity (how many people do you know would willingly have the life sucked out of them to mass produce an item [sweat shops and factory sweat doesn't count ]). Until magic can be harnessed, it'll remain that way.

It's the same IRL: the tech for cell phones is over 50 years old, but its only within the last 10 or so that businesses have managed to profit from it. Profit=reduced cost (if the company invests back into itself)=greater availablitiy.

I also make it hard to find someone who can make such items. It doesn't take a spellcaster to run a church, and the diety probably doesn't want said cleric sitting around making items. The gods also tend to frown onwasting their power for profit unless the church is in dire straits. Going to the church for a potion doesn't mean slapping down some gold and getting a potion; it means doing the church a favor.

Wizards tend to be cloistered for good reason, and few reach levels beyond 10 (retirement or accidents). That in and of itself limits items available. Those items that are prefabricated are either stolen or recently bought. Either item will be MUCH more expensive.

I prefer to watch my players think. Abundant magic without cost (or at least thought to what it cost the caster) just makes things too easy. Even our current tech level requires that we think about resources, balance, & consequences (how will I aqcuire feul? How will I power this object?

 

[Storyteller01]

Eh. Clerics, druids, bards, rangers, paladins, and anyone with a good Use Magic Device score can use a wand of cure spells, and they're cheaper than 50 potions by a fair margin. Why wouldn't they be fairly available (assuming people capable of making them aren't too uncommon)?

One gold could feed a fief based family for a LONG time. Typical towns with inn's, stables, and other resources can make a gold piece go a long way. Most will probably have to feed their family before they can think of getting the fancy magic item.

Look at how much they charge in the DMG. How much does in cost to run an in if teir charging silvers and coppers for food and lodging?

Why would these items be readily available if only 3% to 5% of the population can afford to purchase it?

 

[Storyteller01]

Not necessarily. In a D&D world, if you rob someone with far more resources than you, the presense of divination magic (when the victim can easily afford it -- even if they can't cast it themselves and don't have friends who can manage it -- and the thief can't afford protections against it) pretty much guarantees that you'll be caught.

Who says you're attacked by one thief? And even if you find said thief, only the more powerful or vengeful will actually be able to do anything about it. The expense of tracking and killing/torturing/arresting the bugger is usually more than what you lost.

And there's no guarantee the thief hasn't already spent your gold, sold your goods, and/or got hisself killed because he had it in the first place.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I DM for a pretty large party of seven pc's. Two of which are of the munchkin variety you describe. If I didn't put some heavy limits on the availability of the magic these two would go hog wild. As it stands now they're already pretty munchkin, with basically 3rd level magic at 5th level. Of course the upswing is that with such a large party they have a pretty solid healing base of 1 cleric, 1 druid, and 1 fighter/cleric, so there's not alot of call to stock up on healing magic. Offensive stuff is all they're really after.

Wait, they have 3rd level spells at 5th level? How is that munchkin? That's what you get by default with a Clr/Wiz/Drd.

And how is them going "hog wild" a problem? They need money (or whatever the mage/church wants--land, service, resources, piety, etc.) to get the items.

I absolutely _despise_ the idea of magic being bought and sold like common merchandise. Magic is meant to be esoteric and arcane. CLW wands/potions/whatever cannot be just bought and sold. While magic can be bought in my world it requires alot of legwork, and not just a bunch of skill rolls. We're talking political or underworld kind of contacts. Magic, even priestly magic is seen as a dangerous force, that should not fall into the wrong hands.

That's nice, why not try Conan?

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IMC I have a pretty common availability of magic items. The PCs aren't going to be cheated or fooled if they go through the standard routes of purchasing. Everything is, of course, subject to supply and demand.

As a player, if I don't have access to magic, I feel extremely vulnerable. Magic is powerful, you can fly, you can levitate, you can survive the elements, you can escape enemies, you can

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Not necessarily. In a D&D world, if you rob someone with far more resources than you, the presense of divination magic (when the victim can easily afford it -- even if they can't cast it themselves and don't have friends who can manage it -- and the thief can't afford protections against it) pretty much guarantees that you'll be caught.

How can you catch someone if you have no connection to them and nothing to scry by? And who is to say that the power or deity you ask with Contact Other Plane will know or admit to knowing who stole the items?

 

[Evilhalfling]

IMC - low level wands are easily avalible for comission, occasionally larger temples will have one on hand ready to sell - to get 30 the party would have to convince a large number of different temples that this was what needed to be done, It would take a dedicated cleric a month. Not counting time off for holy days and whatever he was supposed to be doing. Having 10 made would take a month. The temple would also have to believe in the cause to spend this amount of time on a project. In smaller towns I keep track of who has what - ie the high priest only has wonderous item, there is a 6th lvl priest with craft arms and armour, and the local bard can scribe scrolls.

 

[drothgery]

Why would these items be readily available if only 3% to 5% of the population can afford to purchase it?

Because selling them is quite profitable, assuming you can get in contact with those who want your stuff. Making modern real-world analogies to D&D is often not the greatest idea, but I've never noticed that luxury cars or high-end consumer electronics were not readily available.

 

[Storyteller01]

Because selling them is quite profitable, assuming you can get in contact with those who want your stuff. Making modern real-world analogies to D&D is often not the greatest idea, but I've never noticed that luxury cars or high-end consumer electronics were not readily available.

Your looking at the market at the wrong level. American Express has a Black Credit card with an extremely high limit. You can't ask for it: invitation only.


High end electronics and car go through the same deal. There are many models that fits the catagory 'if you haven't heard about it, you can't afford it'. As the saying goes, if the general public knows about it, something better is already out there somewhere.

What you see is what sells on a regular basis. It would be the same as a peasant buying a great racing horse. It's a status symbol for him, but the's a heck of a lot better out there for those who can afford it.


For a D&D comparison, what is a commoner likely to afford: the herbal remedy from the local healer (the BMW if you will, since no one lese can make it), or the 50 gp CLW (the better BMW). This doesn't even cover the chance of infection (that's the Lamborgini/Daytona 500 Cure Disease potion at 750 gp a pop).

 

[Storyteller01]

Because selling them is quite profitable, assuming you can get in contact with those who want your stuff.

So wouldn't you sell to those who can pay, rather than the general populace?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Your looking at the market at the wrong level. American Express has a Black Credit card with an extremely high limit. You can't ask for it: invitation only.


High end electronics and car go through the same deal. There are many models that if the catagory 'if you haven't heard about it, you can't afford it'. As the saying goes, if the general public knows about it, something better is already out there somewhere.

What you see is what sells on a regular basis. It would be the same as a peasant buying a great racing horse. It's a status symbol for him, but the's a heck of a lot better out there for those who can afford it.


For a D&D comparison, what is a commoner likely to afford: the herbal remedy from the local healer (the BMW if you will, since no one lese can make it), or the 50 gp CLW (the better BMW). This doesn't even cover the chance of infection (that's the Lambogini/Daytona 500 Cure Disease potion at 750 gp a pop).

Or to continue the analogy - a high level magic item is more akin to a formula 1 race car than a luxury car, custom made, not stock. Even with production items you cannot go to a small town dealership and buy 30 Caddies all at once, they just won't have that many in stock.

The Auld Grump