the Jester
Legend
I think it's a little too powerful; I'd drop the extra spell at each level and the increased save DCs and maybe take out the spellcaster level increases at two or three levels.
Storm Mage Prestige Class(reivsed, top post)
- Thread starter Merlion
- Start date
Merlion
First Post
Ok one at a time.
Nifft:
Yes, just like most published spellcasting prestige classes. and indeed several of the Storm Mages abilities have no combat effect, or only if you happen to be fighting in bad weather.
How is it a no brainer for a sorcerer? or anyone? its very specfic...its a Storm/Weather mage. if this isnt your character concept why would you take it? And yes that making it to good is very much opnion. I understand that many feel the fact that sorcerers give up so little and gain so much is a problem with many spellcasting prestige classes. I first of all dont really see it as a problem, and secondly if it is I'd say the problem lies more with the Sorcerer class giving so little incentive to stay with it.
Generaly, I prefer to just write new spells. I already have a Blizzard spell that I will probably add and post here
Cloudkill and Acid Fog were added for the nature of their effect not for their "energy" type. (I have issues with refering to acid as "energy")
Ranger Wickett:
[rant] I have heard people make this statement about a lot of things, my work and other peoples and I am begining to get a trifle annoyed with it. Its an absolute statement. Not, it might be overpowerd, or in my opnion its overpowered, but the absolute statement that it IS overpowered and that is a fact. While their does need to be a certain baseline for balance, when push comes right down to shove its all a matter of taste and opnion. Plus, making absolute declaritive statements about things of this nature is just rarely a good idea. [/rant]
Well to be technical it doesnt get EVERYTHING a wizard or sorcerer would. More importantly, as I mentioned most spellcaster prestige classes get full or nearly full spell progression. Few would probably take them otherwise. Also as mentioned, many of the Storm Mage's actual abilities have little or no combat power. What really would I do to tone it down and still really have much left?
Al:
Again that absolute statement....
Overall your more or less right, although not for quite the reason you think. The DC boost part in this case I wouldnt consider quite equal to 2 Spell Focus feats because even one spell focus feat well chosen would affect more spells than those included in the Storm Mage spell list. But it also increases caster level in all respects so overall your right. However many spellcasting prcs recieve simliar powers. However, I may rework it just slightly more. Probably make it apply just to DC and overcoming spell resistance.
you misread this. It must be a spell from the (rather small) Storm Mage spell list.
They dont gain any other sort of bonus spells. And many of the abilities have little or no combat power.
As I've mentioned the whole "tradeoff" thing is that big a deal to me. Not to many other designers aparently either. If their is a problem I see it as having more to do with core classes not offering much at mid and upper levels as far as class abilities.
I dont really think so. The only changes I plan on making is the aforementioned tweak to Storm Power, and I am probably going to replace the Widen Storm ability. Instead I think I will have them gain eventualy 2 or so uses per day of an ability similiar to Sculpt Spell allowing them to manipulate the areas of effect of Storm spells.
The Jester:
The abilities you mention are the backbone of this prestige class. If I dropped them it would be because I was totally re doing the whole thing. I took out one level of spell progression already. Thank you tho for " I think its a little to powerful", as oposed to, "its to powerful". I apreciate that
Nifft:
Yes, just like most published spellcasting prestige classes. and indeed several of the Storm Mages abilities have no combat effect, or only if you happen to be fighting in bad weather.
How is it a no brainer for a sorcerer? or anyone? its very specfic...its a Storm/Weather mage. if this isnt your character concept why would you take it? And yes that making it to good is very much opnion. I understand that many feel the fact that sorcerers give up so little and gain so much is a problem with many spellcasting prestige classes. I first of all dont really see it as a problem, and secondly if it is I'd say the problem lies more with the Sorcerer class giving so little incentive to stay with it.
Generaly, I prefer to just write new spells. I already have a Blizzard spell that I will probably add and post here
Cloudkill and Acid Fog were added for the nature of their effect not for their "energy" type. (I have issues with refering to acid as "energy")
Ranger Wickett:
[rant] I have heard people make this statement about a lot of things, my work and other peoples and I am begining to get a trifle annoyed with it. Its an absolute statement. Not, it might be overpowerd, or in my opnion its overpowered, but the absolute statement that it IS overpowered and that is a fact. While their does need to be a certain baseline for balance, when push comes right down to shove its all a matter of taste and opnion. Plus, making absolute declaritive statements about things of this nature is just rarely a good idea. [/rant]
Well to be technical it doesnt get EVERYTHING a wizard or sorcerer would. More importantly, as I mentioned most spellcaster prestige classes get full or nearly full spell progression. Few would probably take them otherwise. Also as mentioned, many of the Storm Mage's actual abilities have little or no combat power. What really would I do to tone it down and still really have much left?
Al:
Again that absolute statement....
Overall your more or less right, although not for quite the reason you think. The DC boost part in this case I wouldnt consider quite equal to 2 Spell Focus feats because even one spell focus feat well chosen would affect more spells than those included in the Storm Mage spell list. But it also increases caster level in all respects so overall your right. However many spellcasting prcs recieve simliar powers. However, I may rework it just slightly more. Probably make it apply just to DC and overcoming spell resistance.
you misread this. It must be a spell from the (rather small) Storm Mage spell list.
They dont gain any other sort of bonus spells. And many of the abilities have little or no combat power.
As I've mentioned the whole "tradeoff" thing is that big a deal to me. Not to many other designers aparently either. If their is a problem I see it as having more to do with core classes not offering much at mid and upper levels as far as class abilities.
I dont really think so. The only changes I plan on making is the aforementioned tweak to Storm Power, and I am probably going to replace the Widen Storm ability. Instead I think I will have them gain eventualy 2 or so uses per day of an ability similiar to Sculpt Spell allowing them to manipulate the areas of effect of Storm spells.
The Jester:
The abilities you mention are the backbone of this prestige class. If I dropped them it would be because I was totally re doing the whole thing. I took out one level of spell progression already. Thank you tho for " I think its a little to powerful", as oposed to, "its to powerful". I apreciate that
Merlion
First Post
Jeph said:
Um, this Prestige class doesnt effect the number of spells a Sorcerer can cast, and it only increases spells known by 1 at each spell level.
Additionaly many of the abilities (Predict Weather, Stormsight, Ignore Winds even Ride the Winds) arent really that powerful.
Also in standard DnD a Sorcerer cant take it till 17th level due to the Knowledge (Nature) requirement. Now in an FR campaign or one that allows FR feats Education can handle this. In my campaign characters can choose an extra knowledge skill as a class skill, and 3er might expand things a bit to.
But I'm really not worried especialy not once i do the final tweaks.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Merlion said:
1) A half-decent Storm Mage can make bad weather, so the combat bonuses do apply.
2) Bonus combat spells (lightning bolt, etc.), coupled with a boost in the DC for those spells, count as a BIG boost in combat ability.
3) However, not all power is combat power. A rogue with 20 ranks in Diplomacy, Gather Information and Bluff has one kind of power, while a Paladin/Aristocrat with a Charisma of 20 and the Leadership Feat has yet another kind. Your PrC grants power without drawback. If it were limited to Druids, it would NOT be overpowered.
4) There are many published PrCs which are crap -- 85% or more by my unscientific guesstemate. Don't judge "balance" by "popularity".
5) Don't take the critique personally -- it's a PrC full of cool ideas -- too many, in fact.
That's why it's unbalanced. If you just slow down spell progression, say to 1/2, everyone will shut up.-- Nifft
Merlion
First Post
Probably, but then I would also probably never play the class. Yes they can make bad weather...if they happen to be outdoors(and actualy they still have to be CL 11 at least to cast Control Weather) but even then...Stormsight: so they can operate normaly in the conditions they create. Predict weather...might provide some advance notice for tactical purposes. Ignore Winds again lets them operate normaly in a certain adverse condition. Only the Storm Power, Widen Storm, Summon Hail/Lightning and the extra spell are the only offensive advantages, and the Resistance is a defensive one.
Most prestige classes of all kinds grant power with little or no drawback...much like the core classes. I dont see this as a problem.
I wasnt talking about popularity. I was more refering to publish-ability and to the fact that professional game designers designed thease things...and I've seen only a tiny handful of spellcasting prestige classes without full or almost full progression. Look at Tome and Blood. Fatespinner grants about half or a little more and Spellsword is half(but its a multiclass one). As near as I remember all the others have full or full -1 level.
I'm sorry I just dont think most of the abilities are really powerful at all and I am going to reduce stormpowers affect and replace Widen as it is.
Most prestige classes of all kinds grant power with little or no drawback...much like the core classes. I dont see this as a problem.
I wasnt talking about popularity. I was more refering to publish-ability and to the fact that professional game designers designed thease things...and I've seen only a tiny handful of spellcasting prestige classes without full or almost full progression. Look at Tome and Blood. Fatespinner grants about half or a little more and Spellsword is half(but its a multiclass one). As near as I remember all the others have full or full -1 level.
I'm sorry I just dont think most of the abilities are really powerful at all and I am going to reduce stormpowers affect and replace Widen as it is.
