Story Elements in RPGs...

[S'mon]

I'll use an example I actually ran, an adaptation of Babylon5 to D&D.

I was reasonably certain I could get my merry band to the Battle of the Line (and I did).

Makes me want to run an actual Babylon 5 'In the Beginning' campaign. I could bring a laptop PC (which normally I never take to D&D games), and before the Battle, play this:
this

 

[Ariosto]

"Exploring what it means to be human", etc.: Show me, don't tell me. Man, I wouldn't even pick up a novel that had to spell out its "great theme" as if it were a schoolboy's essay! Why would I want a game like that? YMMV, I guess.

Instead of aping a plot line, I would rather unpack a story for incorporation in a game. Toss out the clockwork, flesh out the situation and characters so I can reasonably infer their behavior in response to other events.

Set up opportunities for "literature worthy" stuff to happen. The whole schmear might be a bit more complex and nuanced than a piece of Spielbergian schmaltz, but is that really such a bad thing?

 

[Umbran]

To my mind that's very different from seeking to impose a theme on PCs.

I think the GM has as much right to insert themes into the game as the players do.

 

[S'mon]

I think the GM has as much right to insert themes into the game as the players do.

I don't think we disagree - but there can be thematic railroading. Eg in my Mortis example above I could have tried to force a "Futility of Evil" theme by ensuring that all his efforts failed through DM fiat, rather than it being an emergent effect of the player eg not comprehending the implications of an alignment switch from very-LG to very-CE, not understanding that a CE boss (Graz'zt) is not going to be particularly loyal to his underlings, etc.

I think what the DM can do thematically is pose questions, but never impose answers. So: "This campaign will address Question X" is fine (given player buy in) but not "This campaign will address Question X, and give answer Y" is not fine.

 

[Janx]

Makes me want to run an actual Babylon 5 'In the Beginning' campaign. I could bring a laptop PC (which normally I never take to D&D games), and before the Battle, play this:
this

I'm glad you found that. I had taken a transcript of that speech, and the mages had basically cast a "PA" spell so the King could give that speech which set the tone for the battle. I had reworded a few references to apply to the game world, but otherwise it was the same.

My campaign started about a year before the battle, before the humans discover the elves. So I give them some "normal" stuff, before the fatal encounter, which the party learns about as an announcement.

It was a lot of fun, and starting pre-Bab5 allowed for some background building, and let me build up PCs from level 1, introducing them into command positions as higher level PCs with real backstory.

 

[Umbran]

I don't think we disagree - but there can be thematic railroading.

Yep. And without wanting to go down the rathole too far, I'll just say that I think railroading is a technique, a tool. It is sometimes abused or used badly, and sometimes used well. The difference is largely a matter of degree.

I think what the DM can do thematically is pose questions, but never impose answers. So: "This campaign will address Question X" is fine (given player buy in) but not "This campaign will address Question X, and give answer Y" is not fine.

See above. I'm going to stand away from the absolute, there.