[Strange and on topic] Haste . . . and the physics of food?

[Amrynn Moonshadow]

Ronaldo is a transmuter, but he is also a cook. He (the PC) is trying to convince me through logic (i guess a bit meta-game) that casting haste on food speeds up its' particles, and basically, can cook things.

Eg:<br>
I caste haste on the stew to warm it up

This kind of goes in hand with the fact that most books i've read don't really have crunchy bits about the effect of magic on mundane things.

The FR is quite a high magic land, yet I don't see any spells for most useful things. Not all mages are out there going in dungeons, i'm sure there are more mages out there who rather just make life easier for, at least, themselves.

Usually in reality (uh-oh) necessity is the mother of invention. Look at the high level of technology and near-nanotech we currently have, and look at how we are using it. We are making things like iPods and other small MP3 players with up to 60 gig drives.

Why did I mention that? because some things are more useful than others, yet more frivilous things may sometimes occur.

In the FR one such example of necessity being the mother of invention, while being slightly frivilous, would be the inclusion in the FRCS of fertility and infertility magics. (and to a lesser extent, STD's)

I guess there are some horny mages and herbalists out there doing these kinds of things, yet that gnomish mage hasn't invented self lighting candle sticks yet . . . or the fat druid hasn't figured out how to keep produce fresh and ever-ripe . . .

You'd at least thing that Elves, some who live for 10 centuries at a time, would have been able to make some sort of eco-friendly, magical, self cleaning lavatory. (how many times do you think an elf mage, possible with some prostate problem would have to use the washroom in their entire lives . . .)

Possibly there could have been alot of such things (time saving magics) in Nethril, that was lost, but in magic rich Haluraa and hedonistic Calimshan don't you think we'd have some more spells to help you do normal things (besides, possibly, open/close and presdigitation)?

Don't you think the Simbul would have some manner of "comb hair" spell hanging around, or Elminster some sort of "create Viagra" conjuration spell (we all know about how he's supposed to have done it with everyone in the FR at least twice, or something . . .)???

I see something inherently inbalanced in a world where people devote their time to being able to shoot fireballs at each other, but still have not really solved the flamability issue that barns have. You can raise the dead, but you still have to suffer with grandma soiling her clothes. Heck, you can age dragons (Cadderly did this), but you still have to watch out for sewer rats.

There isn't a big niche for these kinds of things, but someone should make a netbook of: i) mundane magics, and ii) mundane / alternative uses for existing magics.

Starting with things like:

Ranger:
-dry wood
-clear / obscure path (including stuff like fallen leaves being moved, etc)
-mask scent

etc

Paladin:
-polish armor
-tend to horse
-groom self . . .

Mage:
-purify spell components
...

Cleric:
-magical memory
(some sort of spell which would help them cram for exams or something, where they can remember precise doctarines and details of holy books to be recited at a later moment, with all the technology we put into cheating now, dont think if we could use MAGIC we'd not try to cheat with magic as well???)
-groom self

and so forth.

and using existing spells for other purposes (and thus the cyclic end of this post)

Haste:
can be used to agitate the particles in all solid, liquid and some gasseous objects. (slow can be used to cool down things, or in some cases of water, to freeze it)

what say you, Enworld??

 

[Seravin]

just my two coppers...

Overall I think the suggestion of minor magics for use in everyday life is a good idea. And has been done in some part by existing spells.

yet that gnomish mage hasn't invented self lighting candle sticks yet

Continual Flame would be my answer here

Possibly there could have been alot of such things (time saving magics) in Nethril, that was lost, but in magic rich Haluraa and hedonistic Calimshan don't you think we'd have some more spells to help you do normal things

Unseen Servant, Mage Hand, Minor Creation, Major Creation, Telekinesis, and Summon Monster arguably fill this niche.

Ronaldo is a transmuter, but he is also a cook. He (the PC) is trying to convince me through logic (i guess a bit meta-game) that casting haste on food speeds up its' particles, and basically, can cook things.

However as a dm I'm going to have to say this is 'a bad idea'. Trying to match physics to the game doesn't usually work. Ascribing any effects outside what is explicitly granted in the spell description usually grants more power than was intended. If it's fast enough to cook food what will it do to his insides? Why not just haste a troll (while the caster is off the ground) and let it roast itself?

If you need a pseudo-physics answer maybe he just moves through the time stream slightly faster than everyone else.
Maybe it's just magic.

Still, a book on useful, everyday magics would be cool.

 

[RangerWickett]

Not to be overly short with you, but we already have prestidigitation. Just put it on everyone's spell list, give paladins and rangers the ability to cast it once per day (and limit it only to class-appropriate uses), and you're set.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd like to see the duration of Prestidigitation scale with level, as well.

As for STDs... that's what Paladins are for What else are they going to use all those Remove Diseases on?

-Hyp.

 

[FireLance]

In the FR one such example of necessity being the mother of invention, while being slightly frivilous, would be the inclusion in the FRCS of fertility and infertility magics. (and to a lesser extent, STD's)

If you check the FRCS, there are alchemical contraceptives for both males and females. You don't need magic for everything.

Back to Ronaldo's problem. There was a Dragon magazine that had a number of new 0-level cantrips. One of them sounds exactly like the spell he's looking for. IIRC, it slowly applies heat to an object, enough so that a kettle of water would boil in 1 minute.

 

[Zappo]

Prestidigitation alone can solve many of these problems. I routinely use it to comb my hair, dry my clothes, wipe my ***, dye my clothes, flavor my food, and do a number of other thingies.

As for haste being used to heat things, this is just ludicrous. It sounds like the kind of things a 15-year old who just studied basic science at school would come up with. First of all, the spell targets creatures not objects, and secondly it speeds them up not their molecules. What's most important though, is that a spell does what's written in the description, not more, not less, and no amount of more or less scientific reasoning will change that.

 

[Jeph]

In junior high, PDA means Public Display of Affection, and will get you 5 days out of school suspension. However, I believe in a different sort of PDA:

Prestidigitation Does Anything.

There. Problem solved.

 

[Umbran]

Ronaldo is a transmuter, but he is also a cook. He (the PC) is trying to convince me through logic (i guess a bit meta-game) that casting haste on food speeds up its' particles, and basically, can cook things.

Eg:<br>
I caste haste on the stew to warm it up

There are a couple major logical problems here.

First, you cannot cast Haste on the stew. Haste has a target of "one creature". If your stew qualifies as a creature, I sure as heck don't want to eat it!

Second (and here we get into the bit about not useing real-world science to explain D&D magic), if the spell would cook the meat in the stew, it would also cook the meat on the bones of a recipient of a more conventional casting of the spell. In other words, people who had Haste cast on them would take damage. Since they do not take damage, that means Haste doesn't heat things up.

This kind of goes in hand with the fact that most books i've read don't really have crunchy bits about the effect of magic on mundane things.

That's probably because "crunchy" does not imply "interesting". D&D is, for the most part, a game of heroic fantasy. Not a game of mundane details. We don't go into such details because they would not generally enhance the story much.

In addition, using a 3rd level spell to cook a normal dinner is "using a bazooka to kill a fly" territory. Using the skills of multiple levels of wizard to perform a task that can be and is done by any zero-level commoner is massive overkill. Thus Prestidigitation.

 

[Pbartender]

Fun With Prestidigitation, an excerpt from Tome & Blood as posted on the WotC website.

 

[buzzard]

Haste:
can be used to agitate the particles in all solid, liquid and some gasseous objects. (slow can be used to cool down things, or in some cases of water, to freeze it)

what say you, Enworld??

No. It wouldn't provide enough energy.
Time for back of envelope calculations:
100 Kg fighter increased in speed from 30 KPH to 60 KpH

Increase from 8 mps to 16 mps. (E= 1/2 mv^2)
12800 joules - 3200 joules= 9600 joules.
This amounts to 2291 calories.

Now this may sound lik a lot. However each calorie will raise one gram of water one degree celsius. Say a decent portion of stew is 250 g (1/2 pount for us merkins). we need to raise it from room temperature to a good eating temperature. So we go from 21 C to 48 C. This process will take 6750 calories.

Cooking is even more energy intensive in general. This was just re-heating. Thus, a basic calculation shows that haste is a no-show energy wise.

buzzard