Spoilers Stranger Things Season 5 - SPOILERS

[mearls]

I think the last few episodes suffer from needing to set up the final batch. It created some weird structural issues with the story.

Will’s coming out was a good example of this. It would have been so much more awesome to have that scene, then have him go full sorcerer on Vecna. It was wildly bizarre for me that super genius Vecna needed to read Will’s mind to figure out that Max was in the hospital. He’s literally spying on kids and picking out victims, but he can’t figure out that someone with multiple broken limbs, whose mind he has captured and left in a coma, is in the hospital. Did he just not check? Are there five hospitals in Hawkins?

Overall though, despite some of those issues I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve seen criticism of the sequence with the melting building, but I really liked it. It’s very applicable to TTRPGs - we get a set up showing something weird happened here, then the characters mess with the Maguffin and the weird event happens again. It felt like D&D exploration done right.

 

[Umbran]

Even as someone not trying to see it that way, there are moments when the portrayal was questionable.

A friend of mine (who was a gay kid in the '80s) has a two takes on it that makes some sense to me.

1) If you make every character decision based on the demographic the character represents, you don't get a character, you get tokenism. So, a well-done representation will have aspects that aren't about their representation.

2) Writers shouldn't write to protect their work from bigots. To bigots, anything that can misconstrued to their favor, will be. They will make crap up if they have to. There's no point in trying to dodge that.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah, I dont see a dirty dozen/rogue one ending being set up here.

Also... there isn't much in the past of the show that tells us they are trying to subvert the genre. And so much death would be a subversion of genre.

 

[Umbran]

Will’s coming out was a good example of this. It would have been so much more awesome to have that scene, then have him go full sorcerer on Vecna.

That's probably exactly what's going to happen.

Note that Will is really the only one who has dealt with his major fears. He's now the one on whom Vecna has little potential grip. Kali and Elle are walking into that fight with their baggage, but Will's discarded his. I expect that to be important.

It was wildly bizarre for me that super genius Vecna...

Hold that thought.
Who ever said Vecna's a super-genius?
He has massive powers that others don't understand, but his plans are not actually all that cunning - he succeeds largely through brute force, stealth, and choosing specifically vulnerable targets, not by being clever.

Like, isn't targeting Max, who is close to Elle... actually kind of dumb? Wouldn't he have done better if he'd picked another kid with trauma that the party didn't know?

He’s literally spying on kids and picking out victims, but he can’t figure out that someone with multiple broken limbs, whose mind he has captured and left in a coma, is in the hospital. Did he just not check? Are there five hospitals in Hawkins?

It doesn't seem that he can scry on arbitrary places/people. He can only contact minds, and chooses to only contact children's minds. Max's mind was within is own, so he couldn't use that connection. Unless someone's been bringing Holly or some other kid to see Max, he wouldn't know if Max was in the hospital, under care in someone's home, or what.

 

[payn]

It was wildly bizarre for me that super genius Vecna needed to read Will’s mind to figure out that Max was in the hospital. He’s literally spying on kids and picking out victims, but he can’t figure out that someone with multiple broken limbs, whose mind he has captured and left in a coma, is in the hospital. Did he just not check? Are there five hospitals in Hawkins?

Vecna/Henry always underestimates his foes which begs the question why doesnt he learn from his mistakes? I'd say he is super powerful and angry more than being a super genius. With Max, if you think about it she was trapped in his mind and her body back in the regular Hawkins. She was no threat and an ace in the hole as he could threaten her if Hawkins kids got privy to his plans. All that changed when Max teamed up with Holly and became a threat to his internal plans. Why did Henry never learn where Max was kept physically before? Probably over confidence in his abilities again. Though, unlike the Hawkins kids, he is one man and has to carry out his plans all on his own. Hard for him to cover every angle and really because of his power he hasnt really had to except when the Hawkins kids come together.

 

[Aellic Mornbringer]

It seems like they slowly been putting Steve on an island so its not too sad if he dies, though I think that would be very nasty to Dustin as has been mentioned. My guess is they team up and save each other to make it out by the skin of their teeth.

Agreed. After the heart to heart Dustin and Steve have, they are a package deal in my mind. They're either both making it out together or both going down together. (my money is on your guess, they will barely make it out together possibly after the audience initially thinks they are goners.)

 

[Aellic Mornbringer]

Vecna/Henry always underestimates his foes which begs the question why doesnt he learn from his mistakes? I'd say he is super powerful and angry more than being a super genius. With Max, if you think about it she was trapped in his mind and her body back in the regular Hawkins. She was no threat and an ace in the hole as he could threaten her if Hawkins kids got privy to his plans. All that changed when Max teamed up with Holly and became a threat to his internal plans. Why did Henry never learn where Max was kept physically before? Probably over confidence in his abilities again. Though, unlike the Hawkins kids, he is one man and has to carry out his plans all on his own. Hard for him to cover every angle and really because of his power he hasnt really had to except when the Hawkins kids come together.

Great points. In addition to underestimating his foes, Vecna/Henry has tunnel-vision for his evil plans. Coupled with your point about how he has to carry out his own plans as he is an army of one, he chooses to focus on his master plan instead of taking time to carefully remove any obstacles (like apparently completely ignoring an entire military base/lab set up in the Upside Down).

 

[delericho]

One last D&D reference: TPK.

(But, no, not really. Campaigns mostly don't end like that.)

 

[mearls]

I can see how Vecna could make the mistake locating Max, but it’s still weird to me that he needs to read Will’s mind instead of just asking the kids he was manipulating. I’m also not crazy about the entire Max storyline.

One thing about Vecna - I really wish that the story from the stage play had been included in the series. I think it adds some nice depth to Vecna and makes it blatantly clear that the US military/Linda Hamilton’s character is the real BBEG.

 

[pukunui]

I can see how Vecna could make the mistake locating Max, but it’s still weird to me that he needs to read Will’s mind instead of just asking the kids he was manipulating. I’m also not crazy about the entire Max storyline.

Perhaps he did know (or assumed) she was in the hospital but needed to read Will’s mind to figure out which room she was in. (After all, the mind reading bit we see isn’t Will going to the hospital, it’s him going down the hall to the door, with the number on it, and then opening it to show Max in the hospital bed.)

One thing about Vecna - I really wish that the story from the stage play had been included in the series. I think it adds some nice depth to Vecna and makes it blatantly clear that the US military/Linda Hamilton’s character is the real BBEG.

It does seem like we’re getting some of that this season. I think we will get a bit more – they need to solve the mystery of why Henry is afraid of the cave so they can use that weakness against him.