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Strength is agile
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 6818920" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong>Finesse check (Strength or Dexterity)</strong></span></p><p>The above images in the Original Post, are reasonably straightforward visualization of actions that apply Strength and Strength checks. D&D heroes are exceptional and amazing, as are the athletes above.</p><p></p><p>In addition to Strength check and Dexterity check, there are also special circumstances that seem able to benefit from either a Strength check or Dexterity.</p><p></p><p>These situations resemble the situation with a rapier. Swords normally use Strength because they are part of body agility. But the rapier is a special situation. Obviously, the rapier requires some amount of Strength to wield proficiently - and indeed the rapier actually tends to be longer than a D&D longsword. But average Strength suffices for a rapier, and it benefits highly from the small sensitive wrist flicks of Dexterity. A rapier can be used for precision stunts. While it is possible to wield a rapier robustly and effectively using Strength alone, it is a kind of weapon that allows a combatant to substitute Dexterity instead of Strength.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, there are special situations that allow the hero making certain kinds of athletic movements by substituting Dexterity of Strength. Classic examples of such use of Dexterity include surviving a fall by landing in a precisely relaxed way, rotating the body while freefalling in a gravityless environment, maintaining balance while climbing (but with no exceptional pullups), and doing aerial cartwheels (but with no high jump, and with head sweeping inches above the ground).</p><p></p><p>There seems to be a lot of room for DM discretion. The rules seem to encourage the DM to adjudicate each scenario case by case. There is leeway for DMs to interpret the rules differently depending on style.</p><p></p><p>Having looked into how to represent human agility for a while now, I see the agility and poise of ‘natural athleticism’ to necessarily include the innate balance of the body, while walking, jumping, climbing, and so on.</p><p></p><p>There for, I now use a Strength check for the balance necessary to walk a tightrope, a task that most might associate with a Dexterity check. It seems to me, the balance necessary for a precarious climb up a mountain cliff is the same as the balance necessary for a tightrope walk. Because upper body Strength is less important for the tightrope walk, the Strength stunt is even easier than the climb. But because upper body is less prominent, tightrope walking is a Finesse check. A player can choose whether to use Strength or Dexterity for this particular body stunt.</p><p></p><p>The main purpose of including tightrope walking among the ‘naturally athletic’ Strength checks, is so every and any body stunt can be represented simply and effectively with a single D&D gaming mechanic: the Strength check.</p><p></p><p>Stunts that are part of body movement benefit from Strength.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In 5e, I like the way Jump works. The Jump description should probably be part of the Strength description. It occurs in the Adventuring - Movement - Special Movement section of the Players Handbook.</p><p></p><p>You can reliably jump a longjump with a distance equal to your Strength score. A Human on average longjumps about 10 feet.</p><p></p><p>You can reliably jump a highjump, high enough to clear about 3 feet plus your Strength modifier of the ground. On average, a Human highjumps about 3 feet.</p><p></p><p>Both kinds of jumps require a running start of at least 10 feet, and if the run is unavailable the jump distances achieved are half.</p><p></p><p>The stronger a hero is, the farther (and more accurately) a hero can jump.</p><p></p><p>Jumps that exceed the reliable distance, require a Strength check to go exert oneself to go the extra distance. A DM decides how much farther or higher is possible. On the one hand, it cant be much more, because these reliable jumps are already close to the physical limit of an individual hero. On the other hand, the hero should somehow benefit from Strength and skill proficiency to determine jumping reach.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Strength is the necessary determiner of the reliable jumping distance. A hero with 20 Strength can normally longjump about 20 feet. But the check to determine how far the hero can go beyond this seems to be a Finesse check. Strength represents big robust body movement. Dexterity represents small precise movements for noticeable effect. So, for example, a hero with 12 Strength and 18 Dexterity might be able to make a longjump whose distance with effort might reach upto 12 Str score + 4 Dex, a total of a possible 16 feet. Each DM might adjudicate this differently.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are Strength checks, Dexterity checks, and Finesse checks. DMs can decide for themselves, which apply best.</p><p></p><p>In general, any motions that seem part of melee combat, grappling, sword aiming, climbing, jumping, exercise balance and poise, sprinting, and so on, are all part of innate athletic aptitude. Strength represents body stunts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 6818920, member: 58172"] [SIZE=4][B]Finesse check (Strength or Dexterity)[/B][/SIZE] The above images in the Original Post, are reasonably straightforward visualization of actions that apply Strength and Strength checks. D&D heroes are exceptional and amazing, as are the athletes above. In addition to Strength check and Dexterity check, there are also special circumstances that seem able to benefit from either a Strength check or Dexterity. These situations resemble the situation with a rapier. Swords normally use Strength because they are part of body agility. But the rapier is a special situation. Obviously, the rapier requires some amount of Strength to wield proficiently - and indeed the rapier actually tends to be longer than a D&D longsword. But average Strength suffices for a rapier, and it benefits highly from the small sensitive wrist flicks of Dexterity. A rapier can be used for precision stunts. While it is possible to wield a rapier robustly and effectively using Strength alone, it is a kind of weapon that allows a combatant to substitute Dexterity instead of Strength. Likewise, there are special situations that allow the hero making certain kinds of athletic movements by substituting Dexterity of Strength. Classic examples of such use of Dexterity include surviving a fall by landing in a precisely relaxed way, rotating the body while freefalling in a gravityless environment, maintaining balance while climbing (but with no exceptional pullups), and doing aerial cartwheels (but with no high jump, and with head sweeping inches above the ground). There seems to be a lot of room for DM discretion. The rules seem to encourage the DM to adjudicate each scenario case by case. There is leeway for DMs to interpret the rules differently depending on style. Having looked into how to represent human agility for a while now, I see the agility and poise of ‘natural athleticism’ to necessarily include the innate balance of the body, while walking, jumping, climbing, and so on. There for, I now use a Strength check for the balance necessary to walk a tightrope, a task that most might associate with a Dexterity check. It seems to me, the balance necessary for a precarious climb up a mountain cliff is the same as the balance necessary for a tightrope walk. Because upper body Strength is less important for the tightrope walk, the Strength stunt is even easier than the climb. But because upper body is less prominent, tightrope walking is a Finesse check. A player can choose whether to use Strength or Dexterity for this particular body stunt. The main purpose of including tightrope walking among the ‘naturally athletic’ Strength checks, is so every and any body stunt can be represented simply and effectively with a single D&D gaming mechanic: the Strength check. Stunts that are part of body movement benefit from Strength. In 5e, I like the way Jump works. The Jump description should probably be part of the Strength description. It occurs in the Adventuring - Movement - Special Movement section of the Players Handbook. You can reliably jump a longjump with a distance equal to your Strength score. A Human on average longjumps about 10 feet. You can reliably jump a highjump, high enough to clear about 3 feet plus your Strength modifier of the ground. On average, a Human highjumps about 3 feet. Both kinds of jumps require a running start of at least 10 feet, and if the run is unavailable the jump distances achieved are half. The stronger a hero is, the farther (and more accurately) a hero can jump. Jumps that exceed the reliable distance, require a Strength check to go exert oneself to go the extra distance. A DM decides how much farther or higher is possible. On the one hand, it cant be much more, because these reliable jumps are already close to the physical limit of an individual hero. On the other hand, the hero should somehow benefit from Strength and skill proficiency to determine jumping reach. Strength is the necessary determiner of the reliable jumping distance. A hero with 20 Strength can normally longjump about 20 feet. But the check to determine how far the hero can go beyond this seems to be a Finesse check. Strength represents big robust body movement. Dexterity represents small precise movements for noticeable effect. So, for example, a hero with 12 Strength and 18 Dexterity might be able to make a longjump whose distance with effort might reach upto 12 Str score + 4 Dex, a total of a possible 16 feet. Each DM might adjudicate this differently. There are Strength checks, Dexterity checks, and Finesse checks. DMs can decide for themselves, which apply best. In general, any motions that seem part of melee combat, grappling, sword aiming, climbing, jumping, exercise balance and poise, sprinting, and so on, are all part of innate athletic aptitude. Strength represents body stunts. [/QUOTE]
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