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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8074142" data-attributes="member: 93670">No it's both.  For simplicity sake, here are the old range weapons[spoiler="old ones"]simple[ATTACH=full]125100[/ATTACH]martial[ATTACH=full]125101[/ATTACH]exotic[ATTACH=full]125102[/ATTACH][/spoiler][spoiler="New ones"][ATTACH=full]125098[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]125103[/ATTACH][/spoiler]The old range increments had a range increment of X, you could jump that up to 5x with any raged weapon at a cost of -2 each time. That made the longbow have 100ft range no penalties but you could do 200/300/400/500 by taking -2-4/-6/-8/-10 but because the second/third/etc attack were made at -5/-10/-15/etc penalty you were almost certain to dramatcally drop your dpr as you went past the first range increment.  By comparison the 5e longbow is 150/ 600 What you couldn't even do with a -10 penalty due to 5x range increment cap 5e lets you do with mere proficiency while bumping the short range too.  That might not sound impressive if you are a full martial class with a long bow, but there were plenty of folks who lacked those & were limited to much shorter ranges. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heavy xbow was a full round action for one shot.  Light xbow also ate a move action.  They can be excluded from relevance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard: All simple weapons(dart 20t javelin30ft sling50ft), plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow(60ft), and whip</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cleric: Simple Weapons (dart 20Ft javelin30ft sling50ft)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druid:</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">club, dagger, dart(20ft), quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, shortspear, sling(50ft), and spear.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter: all simple/martial weapons(100/110ft longbow/composite longbow)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monk: club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin(30ft), kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling(50ft).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin: all simple/martial weapons(100/110ft longbow/composite longbow)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranger:  all simple/martial weapons(100/110ft longbow/composite longbow)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue: all simple weapons,(dart 20Ft javelin30ft sling50ft) plus the hand cross-bow(30ft), rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sorcerer:All simple weapons(dart 20ft javelin30ft sling50ft)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard: club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff</li> </ul>There is a massive difference between shooting someone from about a move action away & taking a penalty if you are using yours to keep that range compared to 5e shooting them 2-4+ rounds of moving while moving away to keep that distance.  It's not really a big deal when the rogue or bardgets in one shot while the melees are closing & then hopes that the melees keep the fight over there.  5e lacks the tactical AoOs that make that happen and it's more like 2-5 rounds of getting in a shot or shots in 5e.  There were also things like an AoO for switching weapons & such. Edit: That says nothing about how dr vrs resist & critters like skeleton archers/bandits would mix things up or How ethe 2/3 BaB classes above were going to have some trouble hitting on the first shot anyways  almost  You could get a feat to null the firing into melee penalty back then & feats were much more common, but you didn't see people taking it because they might sometimes dabble with a shortbow/xbow if they really needed to..  Too many things were nulled in 5e without adjusting any of the math that kept things in check</blockquote>

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