Stronghold Builder's Guide is a mess

The prices in the SHBG assume some use of magic - or the times listed in the book have to be multiplied by a quite a bit.

Take the example, Brightstone Keep. The keep costs 73.200 all told, which is a mere 8 weeks of construction. Now look at the map on page 12, and tell me: without power equipment, vehicles, or any other modern construction contrivances ... do YOU think that could be built, without magical assistance, in only two months ... ?

This is addressed in the Sidebar on page 13, in fact. As a rule of thumb, I'd say, the build times owuld have to be extended by an order of magnitude - at LEAST. Probably more than that. A single order of magnitude higher would produce a build time of 80 weeks - nearly two years. Double that might be more realistic still, for 160 weeks ... just over three years.

My assumption is that the masonry walls are later surfaced by a Wall of Stone spell, and/or that such spells are used to create the guides/forms against which the masonry is laid. IOW, that such spells can and do produce useful aids to construction ... but aren't ALL of such walls.

Consider that an ordinary Masonry wall, per Table 2-5, costs 2,500gp for a 1-foot-thick section of wall, suitable for one stronghold space (which is roughly 20x20, so, that'd be 80' length of such wall, some 10' high - for a total of 32 5x5 squares).

To make that with the Wall of Stone spell, at a caster level of 12 ... would take 9 castings of the spell, assuming there're no windows. If there ARE windows and doorways, it'll take twice as many castings.

At 600gp each. For a total cost of either 5,400gp or 10,800gp.

However, a judicious FEW castings - say, two or three - to act as a guide for where the wall is supposed to go, can (and would) speed up construction mightily, without costing overmuch in the long run (the money spent on the spells would save on labor, since it'd take a LOT longer to build without the spells).
 

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Stronghold Builder's Guidebook said:
...the costs for hewn stone walls in Chapter 2 assume you use this spell when it is more efficient than traditional stonecarving.
...
Casting: 450 gp (Clr9 or Wiz9) or 500 gp (Sor10) or 660 gp (Dr11)

Of course, this is also one reason why I prefer to use the rules in MMS:WE. :) I like a lower-magic game, where you can't put a mage on staff for a year to build a castle.
 


Siulveras: so you've basically said "player characters cannot build their own stronghold" ... ? It could, indeed should, take years to build the sort of strongholds that PC's would want - based on facilities and staff, not on uber-impregnible defenses, mind.

Also, the example Brightstone Keep would take at most 8 weeks to build.
 



Pax said:
Siulveras: so you've basically said "player characters cannot build their own stronghold" ... ? It could, indeed should, take years to build the sort of strongholds that PC's would want - based on facilities and staff, not on uber-impregnible defenses, mind.

Actually, I would have loved for my players to have built something. One did buy a bar/tavern back in 2E days. Most, though, prefer the on-the-road life of the bachelor adventurer.

I mentioned MMS:WE in part because it has reasonable and coherent rules for the PCs to own a plot of land, work it, make some income from it, and build on it. Its scale fits into my "less magic than D&D standard" homebrew world much more than SBG does.

Pax said:
Also, the example Brightstone Keep would take at most 8 weeks to build.

Never heard of hyperbole, eh ? Over-stating a point for emphasis ?
 


Pax said:
There's a WIDE difference between 8 weeks and "a year".

That would be right in line with hyperbole. There's also a big difference between Brightstone Keep specifically and "a castle".

In any event, who said I was talking only of Brightstone keep ? A more elaborate castle could take 40, even 50 weeks to build. Oh, wait, that's that year I was talking about.

The SBG makes some wild "accommodations" for play style. It is designed for the short-span campaigns that are the design standard for 3.x. That "back to the dungeon" mantra I often find having irritating effects for me, y'see.
 

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